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Old 05-12-2005, 04:51 PM   #51
Netura
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I'd love to answer that question, but I am not an Officer of Affliction. I will direct one of them towards this post, however.
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Old 05-13-2005, 01:25 PM   #52
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Default time

Why are you busting your brain about this?? In a month(est time), time will be seperatly instanced for EVERY guild. If WE isn't ready to raid time for a couple weeks, then that leaves like one rotation that might be packed. Maybe guilds that are clearing time with 90% rots, can pass a rotation for a week or two, not asking them to, would just be a nice thing to do. They should put the server mergers off till time is fully instanced, is there that much of a rush for the merger??

BTW, WE will need as many days as they can get in time. Even 4 will not be enough for a long time probably. Two nights for new guilds is WAY to little. New guilds to time need full turnouts to think about clearing it. If they get a night with mid 50's or less, they won't be able to go to far, unlike the other veteran time guilds who have the strats down and gear to clear time with the min required people in one day.

Again, if SoE keeps their word and instances time soon, this will be a non issue, thank god.
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Old 05-13-2005, 02:58 PM   #53
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Aye, we're talking about the next 4-6 weeks or so til it is fully instanced.

I am pretty confident to say that for the 3 MT guilds in time, we aren't even close to having 20% rotting much less 90% rot per your example. For PE if we lose 1 P1 item and 1 P2 item every 2nd or 3rd trip in there that rots, that's a lot. Every other item is getting used to upgrade someone.

But, I think there must be another difference between MT and EMarr from what I'm reading. MT guilds weren't given enough time to clear the entire P1-P5 from their first entry like it sounds like EMarr is. They were given time to have the chance, over a period of time, to clear Time in 1-2 days eventually. For some guilds this took 3 weeks (of getting 1 day every 5th day for practice); for other guilds it took months.

I hope this doesn't sound disrespectful but EMarr seems to have had a much higher tolerance for allowing folks unequal chances at Time (some might call this spoonfeeding though I think that's a grossly offensive phrasing and isn't accurate). One guild's desire to learn an event shouldn't weigh more than another guild's equal need/use for the gear from said event.

End result, at least one MT guild active in this discussion has asked EMarr guilds to try putting down a potential schedule that will allow all active Time guilds to get a [ fair shot ] within a [ reasonable timeframe ]. If FFA is the consensus, then it is the consensus, but currently it is not.
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Old 05-13-2005, 03:55 PM   #54
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Crystilla, click my magelo

Yes, I know what Qvic is like.

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Old 05-13-2005, 04:12 PM   #55
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Free bonking for the cleric then in 3 days (though my point was still valid, every guild NOT in time that night can't go farm qvic like you suggested, only one guild can
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Old 05-13-2005, 04:54 PM   #56
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How does MT's current rotation work exactly?
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Old 05-13-2005, 07:59 PM   #57
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For 4-6 weeks, I think anything overly complicated will probably be more work than it's worth. On EMarr, VoE and WE are brand new to Time, and could use an extra couple of days. Any of the other EM guilds can probably do it in 1-2 days.

I certainly appreciate that MT guilds were expected to learn it in the span of 1-2 days per cycle, and I don't guess there's anything wrong with that. The beauty of a rotation is that it's a server-cooperation issue. The guilds on this server had a different expectation when they were "growing up", so I think both WE and VoE would appreciate being offered something in line with that.

I don't guess either way is necessarily wrong. It's just another of the co-habitation changes we'll have to get used to. I guess if WE can't get 4-5 days to play in Time, that's just the way it'll work out.

I understand that this is the opening of a discussion about what each guild/server thinks is acceptable, so my vote is as follows:

Let the new Time guilds have 3-4 days minimum (per cycle) to work in Time for the next 4-6 weeks. Let the other guilds have 1-2 days if that's all they need. If VoE or whomever becomes familiar enough with Time before instancing occurs, they can post here and say, "Hey, we don't need more than 2 days anymore." and we can adjust accordingly.
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:19 PM   #58
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MT's current rotation is very simple. i could be wrong on the order but it goes like this

Disco 1day
PE 1day
AV 1day
Triune 1day
Rev 1day

I dont see 2days in a row max being out of line, even a new guild should be able to down p1-3 and atleat part of p4 one night, and finish up the next. PE, AV, and Disco have all done it. If you dont get a full clear before your slot is up i dont see that as a bad thing, you gained exp on what you did do so should be able to down it faster the next time and move on.
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:31 PM   #59
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IMO every guild should get 2days in time if someone clears it in 1 night then everyone moves up a day. It seems more than fair to me.

Whits End 2 days
VoE 2 days
Discordians 2 days
PE 2 days
AV 2 days
Affliction 2 day

If newer guilds dont get a full clear then so be it. Im not tryin to be mean, but its all in the learning if you dont get a full clear the first time [which i think is very possible for a new guild in 2days] then the next time you go back you should have the exp to clear it faster and move on to more that you didnt down the time before.
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:49 PM   #60
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I didn't ask you how long it took you to clear time.

I asked what the rotation rules are.
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:51 PM   #61
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and i gave them to you. each guild gets 1 day in time every 5days
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:55 PM   #62
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So when a new guild on MT breaks into Time, they only get 1 day?
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:58 PM   #63
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correct most have been able to do 2 day clears cause of only 5day rotation, but you only get 1day in each rotation.
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:11 PM   #64
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Should be Free For All Till they fix instance
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:13 PM   #65
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So under the MT rotation, each guild had 2 days to clear time per instance, that allowed you to start your instance on one day and continue it on another.

Any rotation decided upon should be a compromise between the rotations of each server. Emarr's time rotation is 5 days. MT's is essentially 2. Therefor, by compromise, a rotation of 3 or 4 days, would be fair to each server. Emarr doesn't want to change its 5 day rot just as much as you guys don't want to change your 2 day rot.

I'm no genious (see, I can't even spell it), but being able to work with the other guilds on the server is probably going to make your life easier down the road. This decision really won't make a difference in a month, but if you talk now, you won't be at each others throats in a year. Thats not directed at only MT guilds either

If you shorten the emarr rot to be more in line with what MT is used to, and use the emarr rule of "if you finish a day early, the next guild goes", that gives everyone a reasonable amount of time in PoTime before the instance without stepping on any toes.

Just some ideas from the man who last raided PoTime in August 04!
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:14 PM   #66
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Or is Emarr's rot 4 days?

See, its been too long!
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:16 PM   #67
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First guild to show force wins! If nothing else, it will be fun to watch and read about!
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:27 PM   #68
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Aye, somewhere in the middle will prolly be where we end up. The one thing to keep in mind - if MT guilds don't need 3-4 days, it may be better to let those be free days (FFA), than move guilds up in the rotation since sometimes folks make plans to be on certain days. Then Emarr guilds get their extra days they desire without tying the entire thing up across the board.

The one thing that was nice about the shorter MT rotation was you got back in Time quicker. The more days you add to every's roster, the more time elapses before you can get back in there and use what you've learned.
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:41 PM   #69
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I'm sure once VoE, WE, and SoM? get their strats down, they will be a 1-2 day guild in Time also. They are just new to the zone right now and have to actually learn it before they can be expected to clear it in 2 days.
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Old 05-13-2005, 10:13 PM   #70
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The way the rot worked on emarr, your rotation ended when you killed Quarm or 4 days, whichever came first.

So if CE one dayed time, the next guild in the rot started 3 days early.

It means you can't plan a raid amonth in advance, but you get to feel out how long it will take a guild to clear time after a couple rotations and suprises were few and far between, but no days were lost and the rotation went relativly quickly. That would address your "ffa days".
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Old 05-14-2005, 05:18 AM   #71
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Thing is, if the rotation just gets bumped a day or two (let's say for example, all guilds have 4 days, PE finishes in two, so next guild goes in 2 days earlier), that kinda shuts out the guilds like Reviction and Triune who don't really need a slot in the rotation as such, but do like to go back to Time occasionally. Maybe, if schedule is gonna bump up a day or two depending on who guilds clear, it might be a good idea to schedule an FFA day here and there so that those guilds who 1-day Time occasionally but don't really need to be scheduled still get their chance to go in. I mean, (and I'm sure this prolly applies to some guilds on EMarr too, but I'm keeping with MT examples cuz it's what I know) Rev and Triune go into Time once a month or so to gear up new apps, get the class specific drops that they haven't been able to get yet, ect. They don't need more than one day and haven't for a really long time...and on MT their days for the most part became FFA...but that doesn't mean they should be completely excluded from consideration either, especially since this is SoE we're dealing with, so even if they say they're gonna be done fully instancing Time in the next 6 weeks or so, should we really hold our breath?
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Old 05-14-2005, 06:42 AM   #72
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Is there any reason that we can't just start a thread here, list the guilds involved in the rotation, and the order they should go in? Then, have each guild come post here when they're done and the next guild is up? For no longer than we'll have to maintain this, I'd say that's feasible.

To compromise between 1 day and 5, we could say that no guild gets more than 3 days to clear, but if they're done before that, the next guild can go ahead and start.

So, if our current list of guilds is:

Whits End
VoE
Discordians
PE
AV
Affliction

On Monday, WE begins their "turn". They raid Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and post Wednesday night that they're done. VoE then gets 3 days to raid in Time, then they post say, Saturday night saying they're done, and Discordians is up. If Discordians takes only 2 nights, then they post on Monday night and let PE have it. If Discordians can normally clear it in 2, but ends up needing an extra day, no biggie. Everyone gets a max of 3, and they post when they're done.

Two situations this creates:

1) Each member guild must check back with the thread to see when they're up.

2) Guilds with set raiding nights may have trouble making their spot in the rotation. If you only raid Monday and Thursday nights each week and your turn falls on a Fri/Sat/Sun, well...
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Old 05-14-2005, 06:45 AM   #73
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For the guilds that want to come in and kill in one day every few weeks, I don't personally have a problem with them butting in, if they'll post here and say, "Hey, Magister would like to take a shot between Discordians and PE. We only need one day."

Of course, considering that each of those guilds says they'll do it once every few weeks, and all have better farming options available to them, what's the likelihood of all of them wanting to butt in over the next 4-6 weeks? Could they wait until it's instanced? Probably. Will they want to? I don't know.

As long as we try to keep each other informed of what's going on, I think most anything can probably work rather smoothly.
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Old 05-14-2005, 07:26 AM   #74
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Perhaps it's me, but I don't see why we need to change our rules for our server. We've had 3-4 guilds in Time at the same time and they worked it out just fine in the end. Considering guilds like WE raid on split days, and VoE only during the week, a schedule like this is going to interfere with those days completely. WE may only get one day in Time.. which is completely unfair to a guild that is just breaking into it, due to their raiding schedule. I applaud your guilds that you can do it in 1-2 days, but most of the active guilds in Time, can not. It is unfair to ask us to change our ways completely, as much as it is to ask you to change your ways completely.

Brigiid has a good idea. To post the days when you go into Time, and then leave. We could set up something on a completely different board, and guild leaders/officers could get together there, decide who/when/where/what/how this is all going to work, based on each guilds schedule and -normal- force, not whats expected or wanted, but what usually logs in on an normal basis. But to do this away from EMarr boards or private guild boards to avoid the scramble of losing the thread, outside influence, ect. And ensure that each guild that has surpased Time and may want in, that are in, or very close, all have the avalibility to access the information and inform the guilds if they are wanting a day ect.

If SoE screws us, Which we know they will, and does not instance Time for months.. then this could become a problem and guild wars, and as Eldo put it, First one with force that clicks the portal wins type ordeal, which granted will be fun to read, but not fun to expierence.
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:16 AM   #75
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Isn't Reviction on European time? They don't really have to abide by any rotation rules as they wouldn't have any competition in their time zone.

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