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Old 05-11-2005, 07:37 AM   #26
jarezath
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That was a standing policy, when it was more difficult to get into time. Does seem dumb now.
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:10 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by jarezath
That was a standing policy, when it was more difficult to get into time. Does seem dumb now.
omg I agree with Jarezath.

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Old 05-11-2005, 09:12 AM   #28
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As it stands now, Whit's End is no longer planning a 2nd RC kill before raiding in Time.
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:09 PM   #29
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VoE had to kill each one 2x and the new backflag system was in. I took weeks to get our 2nd coir kill, when we could have been in time. Guess the point is moot, once time is fully instanced. I thought it was stupid at the time also, took a TON of effort and dissappointment, but VoE stuck to the server rules. I guess its a symbol of effort and dedication, that gains you the respect of other guilds who are in the rotation now.
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:53 PM   #30
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With that "kill twice" rule, at least on MT my understanding of it was so that you could show a force of 52 (full raid for Phase 1) the first few times you went in there, and with deaths, timers, etc, 1 kill on an elemental god was usually not enough to show that force in Time immediately.

As you do time more, you can do it with much much less but initially (before lvl 70, DoN and OOW came out - my experience with it), it took close to a full raid at the start. And getting through phase 3 (where the permanent time flags drop with a smaller force would have been pretty difficult at that point in EQ's expansion life) so the 52 force worked.

~~
Time won't be fully instanced until June from what they're saying (shooting for mid-June I believe I've read on the Sony Live boards).
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Old 05-12-2005, 05:13 AM   #31
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I have a question for VOE, no disrespect intended.. You guys have a huge roster.. I find it hard to believe you could flag enough of your guild on your first coirnev kill to go to time and not leave a large % of your guild behind.

SoM is much smaller and so we got 90% of the flags for all active guild members on our first coirnev kill. It made a lot more sense to 85/15 5 or so in than to kill him again.

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Old 05-12-2005, 07:50 AM   #32
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Generally speaking, I hold server-accepted rotations in high regard. They promote order and cooperation, and I think those things are great, and necessary when dealing with a number of guilds all needing/wanting the same thing.

A lot has changed on EMarr and in EQ since our server's rotation was put into effect. It might've served those original guilds well, but it's hardly necessary anymore. We have exactly 1 guild that farms Time as their primary source of content, and 4 others that might farm Time if they're in the right mood.

Rather than just saying, "Fuck the rotation, here we come.", we did some checking. We checked with the leadership of Magister, Affy, CE, and MF and received a resounding "We don't care, go for it." from all of them. We would have asked Jexibella if she'd been online at the time. We did mention it to Tajerie. We even asked the GL of SoM, as we believe they stand a good chance of entering Time before the full instancing occurs, and would therefore have a vested interest in what happens with the rotation.

Outside of any objection from VoE's leadership (I still haven't spoken with Jexibella), nobody else will be inconvenienced, and nobody else even cares.

Whit's End doesn't need a 2nd RC kill to be ready for Time. We funnelled our "ton of effort" into getting everyone online at the same time, so we could flag 95%+ of our active raid force all in one kill. Outside of killing RC again just to make another guild happy, we have absolutely 0 reason to do it.

Whit's End has met SoE's requirements for Time access. We've gotten the approval of the majority of the Time+ guilds to begin farming in Time. Our guild will begin farming Time within the next week or two, and in another month or two, absolutely none of this conversation will even matter anymore.
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Old 05-12-2005, 08:50 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
"Fuck the rotation, here we come.
But ..But....But...... What if that is what I WANT to say

Heh I follow my leader anywhere /points at Brigiid

Here WE come !!
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:07 AM   #34
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Well, of course magister,aff,ce,mf don't care, it doesn't effect them. Ask them that question a year or so ago and they would have cared. There is only about a month or so left before time is fully instanced(hopefully), so no reason to really beat this topic.

WE is a great guild imho. I wish you the best of luck in Time. The hardest part of time is getting people to log in for the nights you are raiding it. Not like other raid nights, where you can just go after another(smaller) target. At first you will need 50+ and more for Tier3+, but the first 2 tiers we(VoE) did with 37 the other night. If I can give you any advise though, talk to your guildmates now and tell them that it will take dedication from everyone to get anywhere in time. If you only have 40ish people showing up for time raids, you will see what frustration is.
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:19 AM   #35
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Thanks.
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Old 05-12-2005, 10:58 AM   #36
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How does this sound for a proposal, M-R and Sunday is assigned to guilds who are actively farming time. F and S is FFA both for guilds who need the additonal time and for guilds who are beyond time but want a quick run into time for fun. In order to start a time instance guilds agree to wait until they have 18 members in Time A.

Each guild that is actively in the roation is given two consecutive days in time, however, if they have not started until 9PM EST time reverts to FFA. For guild that are not yet time enabled, to be elidgable to join the rotation they must demonstrate 40 time flagged members. Guilds may not exchange days, however, they may inform each other of days they will not be in time.

Rotation would go:

First Round:
Whits End - Tuesday 17th, Wed 18th
VOE - Thu 19th, Sun 22nd
Discordians - Mon 23rd, Tue 24th
PE - Wed 25th, Thu 26th
AV - Sun 28th, Mon 29th
Affliction - Tue 30th, Wed 31st

Second Round:
Whits End - Thu 1st, Sun 4th
VOE - Mon 5th, Tue 6th
Discos - Wed 7th, Thu 8th
PE Sun 11th, Mon 12th
AV Tue 13th, Wed 14th
Affliction Thu 15th, Sun 17th

Repeat until Sony gets its act together ...

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Old 05-12-2005, 11:59 AM   #37
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We will need more than two days, we haven't even started getting a feel for the zone and I don't think we intend to get a feel for it two days at a time. You may only need two days (I'm assuming you really only need one long day) but to subject newly flagged guilds to your standards isn't fair. That will hinder our progress, Time is necessary for us to move forward, it's just a means of twinking alts and gearing new members for higher end guilds. Based on your level of play, I'd say you can wait another day or two to let us finish up.

Not to mention, we don't have a 7 day a week raiding schedule and we may not be able progress as well on certain times during the week given two consecutive days only.

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Old 05-12-2005, 12:03 PM   #38
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Aye, my main concern is the newer guilds only getting 2 days to clear. I'm not as concerned about consecutive raid days - those can be rearranged. I'd just like to know that we're going to be allowed more than 2 days to get in and make some progress before our turn's up.
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Old 05-12-2005, 12:59 PM   #39
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If you read earlier in these threads, Cere was working from the structure that MT had.

Guilds on MT were given at most, 1 day in a row to work Time, but because there were less than 6 guilds in time (at a time), you got 2 days total before your 5.5 day respawn was up.

We didn't have the "you get a week" to get used to the zone (every 5th day was our turn in Time, regardless of what day of the week it is).

Not much had been accomplished yet from what Cere could tell, so he was making a starting point from which to get conversations flowing.

~~
Just as you have a good point that EMarr was used to having a week to themselves, MT was used to only 1 trip every 5 days, and there needs to be compromise here somewhere because there are guilds that raid 6 days a week in Time and guilds that raid a few days a week so the schedule can't be set up for just one or the other. Both sides may have to compromise on a system.

~~
For those just starting or not yet in Time. This is not a zone you come into for 1 month only and then leave it; you'll be here for a little while, gearing up, getting the DBotW for your warriors, the TA's for your shaman, Slow sticks for your chanters, etc. The drops you want won't always happen (PE still has zero Quarm shawl drops for example and only recently got our one and only Tom Po pouch).
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Old 05-12-2005, 01:02 PM   #40
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Didn't want to edit my last post.

The main issue here is, once you've killed Phase 2, it won't be back up for 5.5 days, same with phase 3, phase 4, phase 5, and Quarm. So having too many consecutive days within a short period of time doesn't give you more experience at the same "phase", it just helps with the next phases.
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Old 05-12-2005, 01:08 PM   #41
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Yes, and experience in the next phases is what the new guilds will need. Not to mention wiping in p2/p3 means they may have to start over if their time runs out.
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Old 05-12-2005, 01:09 PM   #42
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Just as you have a good point that EMarr was used to having a week to themselves, MT was used to only 1 trip every 5 days, and there needs to be compromise here somewhere because there are guilds that raid 6 days a week in Time and guilds that raid a few days a week so the schedule can't be set up for just one or the other. Both sides may have to compromise on a system.
I don't really call 2 days a compromise for a guild that's just entered Time. If 1 day was your standard, and a week was our standard, halfway would be somewhere between 3 and 4, which I'd like a whole lot better than two. For that matter, if our standard is a full week, we could back off of it by 1 and call 6 days our version of a compromise.
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Old 05-12-2005, 02:35 PM   #43
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I find it hard to believe you could flag enough of your guild on your first coirnev kill to go to time and not leave a large % of your guild behind.
72 players for a full raid...72 flags. We may have had a player or two there who had been previously flagged also - leaving room for someone outside the main raid to get a flag.

We had more than enough regular raiding members after our first Coirnav kill to raid time. Of this I am certain. We actually may have lost some members to Time raiding guilds while we waited for our second kill to enter the rotation.
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Old 05-12-2005, 02:40 PM   #44
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Half the guilds who are in time did it one way, half the guilds did it the other way.

But repeating what I had thought was a key thing in my post.

Not much had been accomplished yet from what Cere could tell, so he was making a starting point from which to get conversations flowing.
I indicated why Cere probably had chosen that as an initial schedule for discussion. Also, 2 of the last 3 guilds to get into Time on MT took only 9 trips and 3-6 trips total to beat Quarm the first time, so that's also the background knowledge Cere had. No one so far has provided information on how quickly EMarr guilds have worked their way through the phases.

This is a discussion that's just starting and has much more discussions ahead of it.

Usually at this point, someone might come back with a different schedule that balances both experiences and keeps in mind the "level" of the guilds, so that not every guild has the same # of days currently within a 5.5 day respawn.
- PE for example is currently using more than one day in Time on clears (we've done it in one day in the past, but currently with newer folks present we are not)
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Old 05-12-2005, 03:05 PM   #45
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With three days and assuming that the larger guilds still need their 1 to 2 days in time your looking at almost a full month between clears

Whits End - Tuesday 17th, Wed 18th, Thu 19th
VOE - Sun 22nd, Mon 23rd, Tu 24th
Discordians - Wed 25th, Thu 26th, Sun 29th
PE - Wed 30th, Thu 31st, Sun 3rd
AV - Mon 4th, Tue 5th, Wed 6th,
Affliction - Thu 7th, Sun 9th, Mon 10th

Second Round:
Whits End - Tue 11th, Wed 12th, Thu 13th
VOE - Sun 16th, Mon 17th, Tue 18th
Discos Wed 19th, Thu 20th, Sun 23rd.

Do we really want to go that long between raids? Almost a full month between time days doesnt work efficiently. Newer guilds need more xperience working in there going weeks between attempts doesnt allow you to build on what you learned last time. For older guilds weeks between clears means less time spend gearing up.

From our server standpoint AV is the only guild of the three that may clear in one day and I dont think thats their standard. PE & Discos both need two days. I tend to agree that two consecutive days could be a bad scenario as you could get unlucky, but I dont know of an easy solution that gives two days withing a five day window that works easily.

One solution is alternate weeks, with the MT guilds taking one week and dividing it up how we want and the emarr guilds taking the next. Not quite an equitable division as the MT guilds have all in been in time for months while there are two new time enabled guidls on Emarr, however, it does allow us to figure a solution with people we are used to working with a common history.

Put something down , I honestly don't see a nice easy solution here, but would like to see something that is fair and helps us deal with the problem until SOE fixes their mistake. Time was not meant to have 6+ guilds farming it with 4+ guilds jumping in once in a while. I think what I've put here is fair, can you put together a solution and then on monday we could vote on it. I don't think on Emarr you guys would ever have given 3 days in time with 6 guilds actively farming who all used 2 days to clear.

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Old 05-12-2005, 03:09 PM   #46
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Also a reminder that the zone gives you 12 hours to clear it which is two solid raiding days. Yes, you may need longer than 12 hours, but the time "event" was not set up for you to have longer than that.
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Old 05-12-2005, 03:28 PM   #47
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That's under the assumption that each of those guilds takes their entire 3-4 day period. I know most of the guilds in the rotation will need one or two. So no, there will not be a month in between.

It's quite simple, you take the time you need and we'll take the time we need, within reason. You need less time, I expect you'll be done in one long day, maybe two days if you feel like dividing it up. If anyone other than VoE or WE goes in on EMarr, they usually finish up in one day. On those off days you have the option to farm Qvic, Inktu'ta, Txevu, etc. We do not have that option so our time spent there is far more valuable than yours and we will not be held up to your standards, it simply is not fair. Expect the rotation to tighten up once we get the events down and finish alternate access for those that were unable to get flagged. I'm sure we'll only need two days soon enough.

12 hours may be two solid raiding days for you, but our guilds are not the same. We may want to divide our 12 hours into three four-hour days.

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Old 05-12-2005, 04:12 PM   #48
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Just thinking about this differently here. (And for the record, Disco's are not in Qvic yet, and neither PE nor AV are in Txevu.)

Splitting up days a little bit and allowing for different guilds to have different days, two possibilities might be (remember, any guild could be in any spot; it's the pattern that counts):

Assuming each of these guilds need/want this # of days
Whits End 3 days
VoE 3 days
Discordians 2 days
PE 2 days
AV 2 days
Affliction 1 day
= 13 days for a full rotation for all guilds ACTIVELY in Time (however, this doesn't count the guilds that want freebie attempts as well like the Txevu+ guilds).

Attempt #1
WE
WE
WE
Discordians
Discordians
VoE
VoE
VoE
PE
PE
AV
AV
Affliction

= 13 day rotation

Attempt #2
WE
WE
Discordians
VoE
VoE
WE
Discordians
PE
VoE
AV
Affliction
PE
AV

= 13 day rotation

~~
There isn't a really good way to easily split this, and the problem lies in that with any of these setups, there's still a 12-13 day wait before one guild can be in there again. The one issue I think many guilds would have a problem with is if a guild (new or otherwise) wants to have the start of their 2nd turn in Time before all of the guilds have even had their 1st turn. That would be unfair.

~~
We need to start with how many does does each guild want/need right now and figure out the right pattern based on that.
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Old 05-12-2005, 04:13 PM   #49
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Affliction will be on a 2-day (min) once we return to time.
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Old 05-12-2005, 04:40 PM   #50
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Guess here's a question. Would Affliction be ready to be back in there starting the 17th if the rotation had decided to put them first? If not, is there an estimate of when? If a guild can not or is not ready for Time at the start of the merger, should they be dropped from whatever is set up and added in as soon as they are capable again?

We're hoping this is only needed for 4-6 weeks or so until Time is fully instanced.

(Qris, you can /bonk me in person when you see me but I couldn't tell from your earlier comment if you knew what was farmed in Qvic or not. Basically 3 mobs spawn every 6 hours - they can drop 2 augments, armor or a combination of the two. So, basically once during each normal raid night, they spawn.)

- Folks on MT call Qvic the candy store; I call Time the candy store and Qvic the vending machine because Time is guaranteed drops (not FFA mobs) where you get a minimum of 37 pieces of gear each Time clear if you clear it all (5 on Phase 1, 5 on Phase 2, 0+ on Phase 3, 12 on Phase 4, 12 on Phase 5, 3 or 4 if lucky on Quarm). You can get 6 pieces in Qvic a night and up to all of them could be augments if you have a bad RNG working that night. (Not counting Inktu'ta here as you get 1 drop from the first named there, which could be augment or armor but has been augment 99% of our drops so far.)
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