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Old 09-24-2012, 05:17 AM   #1
Drysdale
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So, Iran is just... noise? Dangerous stance, Barry.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...se_652967.html
In an interview to air tonight on CBS's 60 Minutes, President Barack Obama will refer to Israel's concern over Iran's march toward a nuclear program as "noise."

"When it comes to our national security decisions -- any pressure that I feel is simply to do what's right for the American people. And I am going to block out -- any noise that's out there," Obama says, according to AFP.

STEVE KROFT: "How much pressure have you been getting from Prime Minister Netanyahu to make up your mind to use military force in Iran?"

PRESIDENT OBAMA: "Well—look, I have conversations with Prime Minister Netanyahu all the time. And I understand and share Prime Minister Netanyahu's insistence that Iran should not obtain a nuclear weapon, because it would threaten us, it would threaten Israel, and it would threaten the world and kick off a nuclear arms race."

STEVE KROFT: "You’re saying, you don't feel any pressure from Prime Minister Netanyahu in the middle of a campaign to try and get you to change your policy and draw a line in the sand? You don’t feel any pressure?"



PRESIDENT OBAMA: "When it comes to our national security decisions—any pressure that I feel is simply to do what's right for the American people. And I am going to block out—any noise that's out there. Now I feel an obligation, not pressure but obligation, to make sure that we're in close consultation with the Israelis—on these issues. Because it affects them deeply. They're one of our closest allies in the region. And we’ve got an Iranian regime that has said horrible things that directly threaten Israel’s existence."

***

UPDATE II: Romney press secretary Andrea Saul responds:

“Tonight on 60 Minutes, President Obama called Israel’s legitimate concern about the impact of an Iran armed with nuclear weapons ‘noise’ and referred to Israel as merely ‘one of our closest allies in the region.’ This is just the latest evidence of his chronic disregard for the security of our closest ally in the Middle East. Governor Romney's views stand in sharp contrast to the President's. Governor Romney strongly believes that Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East and that support for Israel is essential to extending freedom, peace and democracy throughout the region. As president, Governor Romney will restore and protect the close alliance between our nation and the state of Israel.”

***

UPDATE III: Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad used the same word to describe Israel in an interview with the Washington Post, as Andrea Saul notes:

IGNATIUS: “I want to ask as my first question the one every citizen of the world would like to ask today: What is the chance of a war in Iran that would result from an Israeli attack on your nuclear facilities?”

AHMADINEJAD: “I have spoken about this topic at length, previously. We generally speaking do not take very seriously the issue of the Zionists and the possible dangers emanating from them. Of course they would love to find a way for their own salvation by making a lot of noise and to raise stakes in order to save themselves. But I do not believe they will succeed. Iran is also a very well recognized country and her defensive powers are very clear.”

***

AFP also reports that Obama will say that "he understands and agrees with Netanyahu's insistence that Iran not be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons as this would threaten both countries, the world in general, and kick off an arms race."

But, as the article points out, Obama will not be meeting with Netanyahu this week during the United Nations General Assembly.

Romney, who also is interviewed on 60 Minutes tonight, will say, that Obama not meeting with Netanyahu "is a mistake and sends a message throughout the Middle East that somehow we distance ourselves from our friends and I think the exact opposite approach is what's necessary."
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:37 AM   #2
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This would worry me more if I didn't think Romney's relations with foreign dignitaries would be much more abysmal. The guy just can't relate to anyone that's not Christian, conservative and wealthy. But no, this isn't what this is about. This is about a "gaffe." That's all the media (and subsequently, the public) care about anymore. Israel needs us a lot more than we need them, so their "demands" are just that: noise. They have no right to demand us to make a decision regarding military action with Iran. If we made that kind of statement, that's all the justification Iran needs to proceed. And given the sentiment in the Middle East right now, we might not get a lot of support.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
This would worry me more if I didn't think Romney's relations with foreign dignitaries would be much more abysmal. The guy just can't relate to anyone that's not Christian, conservative and wealthy.
Obama can't relate to anyone who's not wealthy, liberal, and black. There, see, I can do it too.

And talk about ability to relate to the various interests in the Middle East. Right now, Hillary Clinton, a woman, is meeting with several Middle East diplomats. Just how well do you think a progressive, feminist female can relate to cultures where women are property, gays are summarily executed, and questioning religion is a capital offense?
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
This would worry me more if I didn't think Romney's relations with foreign dignitaries would be much more abysmal. The guy just can't relate to anyone that's not Christian, conservative and wealthy. But no, this isn't what this is about. This is about a "gaffe." That's all the media (and subsequently, the public) care about anymore. Israel needs us a lot more than we need them, so their "demands" are just that: noise. They have no right to demand us to make a decision regarding military action with Iran. If we made that kind of statement, that's all the justification Iran needs to proceed. And given the sentiment in the Middle East right now, we might not get a lot of support.
While the Romney camp can attack all they want, there really isn't anything they have to offer in the way of foreign policy except election year rhetoric. Unless Romney wants to escalate the situation into an arms race, or worse, he is just blowing smoke.

He can criticize word choices all he wants, but he has proven himself to be inept in that department. Perhaps it is best that his handlers are responding, rather than him- as that could be even worse.

This article is nothing but election year noise. I heard on the radio that there was no refusal to meet- that Netanyahu had not requested a meeting and been denied.

http://news.yahoo.com/romney-critici...-election.html

More sensationlist Mitt campaign lies. Barry and Mitt need to back the hell off, Hillary's got this.

Last edited by Pinkheart; 09-24-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:29 PM   #5
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The White house denies it. Also Pink heard it on the radio.


Case closed.





Every once in a while you justify my opinion of you.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...280260,00.html
Earlier, a Jerusalem official said that White House rejected Netanyahu's request for a meeting, adding that when a request to that effect was made by Netanyahu's aides, "The White House has got back to us and said that the president's schedule will not permit that."

Netanyahu has met with Obama on all the Israeli leader's US trips since 2009.

The White House was quick to release a statement clarifying that the meeting would not be possible over the two leader's conflicting schedules.

"They're simply not in the city at the same time," National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor said. "The President arrives in New York for the U.N. on Monday, September 24th and departs on Tuesday, September 25th."


http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/11/white-house-rejects-netanyahu-meeting/


CNN) - Israeli sources tell CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that the White House rejected Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s request to meet with President Obama later this month to discuss Iran’s nuclear program.

On CNN’s “The Situation Room,” Blitzer reports that the Israelis were told a meeting isn’t possible because the President’s schedule won’t permit it, even when the Israelis offered to have the Prime Minister come to Washington from New York, where he will be addressing the United Nations.

The White House is pushing back, saying the President and Prime Minister simply won’t be in New York at the same time,

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Old 09-24-2012, 01:08 PM   #6
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Actually, from all reports, Romney and Netanyahu get along swimmingly.

But pretend you know what you're talking about. I'[ll bet that Romney, at the very least, wouldn't insult Freaking England.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Actually, from all reports, Romney and Netanyahu get along swimmingly.

But pretend you know what you're talking about. I'[ll bet that Romney, at the very least, wouldn't insult Freaking England.
Oh big surprise. A war monger and a guy trying to tie the US into a commitment of war get along. Shocker there.

I liked Ron Paul's response to the topic at the debates. He basically said it's another boondoggle waiting to happen, and the war mongers on the right are too eager to send our troops out, using scare tactics.

I really liked his thoughtful response. He acknowledged the potential but also said there isn't enough evidence at this point to be jumping to conclusions or making outlandish commitments. Of course Romney couldn't talk about military action fast enough.

Yay Bush 2.0.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:32 PM   #8
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No, Bush 3.0

Obama is Bush 2.0

And I don't necessarily want to send our troops out, I just want to leave Israel alone when they take out that bunch of mad-men.

And it's funny how you slam Romney on his foreign policy, yet when I bring up a positive foreign connection, one that Obama has absolutely blundered on, you call Netanyahu a war-monger. (By implication)

You're as disingenuous as they come.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
No, Bush 3.0

Obama is Bush 2.0

And I don't necessarily want to send our troops out, I just want to leave Israel alone when they take out that bunch of mad-men.
Which is what Obama is doing... just letting it be.

And it's funny how you slam Romney on his foreign policy, yet when I bring up a positive foreign connection, one that Obama has absolutely blundered on, you call Netanyahu a war-monger. (By implication)
I did not call Netanyahu a war monger. My statement was perfectly clear, you making insinuation does not constitute a statement on my behalf. I realize Israel wants to protect itself, and that is reasonable. They are trying to pressure the U.S. into a military commitment and the President is resisting. That is also reasonable. Romney is the war monger, and can't wait to jump into another avoidable conflict. ... and btw he has no foreign policy- he has election year criticism- big difference.

You're as disingenuous as they come.
You can allow people to put their hands up your ass to move your mouth, but I'll pass. I said what I said and you setting up straw men based on a creative interpretation of what I said is more than disingenuous- it's pathetic.

Again, unless Romney is suggesting we troop up, this is nothing but election year noise. Glad you are enjoying the Kool-Aid, though.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Beal View Post
Obama can't relate to anyone who's not wealthy, liberal, and black. There, see, I can do it too.
You want a gold star? My mother's a piano teacher, I can hook you up.
Originally Posted by Beal
And talk about ability to relate to the various interests in the Middle East. Right now, Hillary Clinton, a woman, is meeting with several Middle East diplomats. Just how well do you think a progressive, feminist female can relate to cultures where women are property, gays are summarily executed, and questioning religion is a capital offense?
What are you talking about? That's just how WE are, it's just taken a step further. Hell, you just described the Bible. I was going to say the Old Testament, but Jesus himself said that you should treat your wife how you treat your slave. Lots of guys in this country do just that. And while we may not kill our gays, I'm sure you remember the story about the PREACHER who said we should put them all behind electric fences so they could die out. Yep, that was here, too. And why don't you go read the comments section on Fox News, or even CNN, every time a story is published that has anything to do with atheism or attacks on Creationism, and watch all the good, little Christians pop up calling for mass murder. So yeah, Hillary can relate, because those concepts aren't so foreign.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
You want a gold star? My mother's a piano teacher, I can hook you up.What are you talking about? That's just how WE are, it's just taken a step further. Hell, you just described the Bible. I was going to say the Old Testament, but Jesus himself said that you should treat your wife how you treat your slave. Lots of guys in this country do just that. And while we may not kill our gays, I'm sure you remember the story about the PREACHER who said we should put them all behind electric fences so they could die out. Yep, that was here, too. And why don't you go read the comments section on Fox News, or even CNN, every time a story is published that has anything to do with atheism or attacks on Creationism, and watch all the good, little Christians pop up calling for mass murder. So yeah, Hillary can relate, because those concepts aren't so foreign.
So, you have to admit.... as far as relating to religious oppressive regimes, a Republican might have a better time "relating".

Of course, our representatives are supposed to represent us, I don't think it wise to elect fringe radicals because that is what those other countries have, and we need to "relate" to them. I think it's more important that our officials can "relate" to us... and that is where Romney falls flat.

Romney reminds me of Carter Pewterschmidt.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
What are you talking about? That's just how WE are, it's just taken a step further. Hell, you just described the Bible. I was going to say the Old Testament, but Jesus himself said that you should treat your wife how you treat your slave. Lots of guys in this country do just that. And while we may not kill our gays, I'm sure you remember the story about the PREACHER who said we should put them all behind electric fences so they could die out. Yep, that was here, too. And why don't you go read the comments section on Fox News, or even CNN, every time a story is published that has anything to do with atheism or attacks on Creationism, and watch all the good, little Christians pop up calling for mass murder. So yeah, Hillary can relate, because those concepts aren't so foreign.
Pink pretty much made my argument for me, but yeah, how can you seriously sit there and argue that Romney cannot relate to Muslims because he's a Christian, yet Hillary can relate to them just fine, because she lives in a country where there are Christians, and Christians are so much like Muslims?
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:47 AM   #13
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Just FWIW I don't think any of our folks really "relate" to the other leaders. That's not really their job. They really need to be able to manipulate/handle them... intimidate if necessary. Do I think Obama relates to Netanyahu? No. Romney? No. Hillary? No. It's not about that, though... we bring our own perspective, it's about getting things done.

I think the person to person dynamics are more important in choice of Secretary of State than in President. The Pres sets the policy tone, but it's the Secretary on the ground. Do I think GW could relate to many internationals? Hell no (cept his Saudi pals), but Condi was effective. Hillary is effective. I think Romney would rely heavily on his choice of SoS, like Obama has. The President can't do everything. It's more important that he can appear confident and capable. Romney has major issues there.

I think he would have a competent SoS, though.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:14 AM   #14
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at some point, reality will FORCE the White House to act in self-preservation.
Until then, it is all fantasy island

Iran wants nukes. Nothing but force will stop them from getting them.

The only question is:

A world where Iran has nukes
or
A world where Iran does NOT have nukes

Which one do you want? The question is BINARY.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:37 AM   #15
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Sadly chit is 100% correct on this, anything else is wasting time.

And I say sadly not due to chit being correct but due to just the way humanity is.


"Opening a conversation/dialog" "understanding" "seeing another point of view"

All pointless when you already know their point of view. they broadcast it daily.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/obama-tells...144529939.html

Am I imaging this or was that a veiled threat?
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Beal View Post
Pink pretty much made my argument for me, but yeah, how can you seriously sit there and argue that Romney cannot relate to Muslims because he's a Christian, yet Hillary can relate to them just fine, because she lives in a country where there are Christians, and Christians are so much like Muslims?
I said "Christian, conservative and wealthy", but I mistakenly left out "white." He can't relate to anyone outside his own demographic, would be a better way to say it. It's not solely because of his religion, even though it's been my experience that most Christians see their religion as vastly different than Islam. Hillary has some experience already and she doesn't come off as phony.

And while the Secretary of State may do more tours of foreign countries, the President meets with foreign leaders regularly, as well as participates in various summits and addresses the UN. Just on his little latest little foreign jaunt he managed to annoy the Brits, the Pols and the Palestinians. Hell, he said that 47% of US citizens saw themselves as victims; he can't even relate to reality. If he was thinking he wasn't going to get those votes before, he sure as hell won't get them now. Yeah, he's a real man of the people.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:11 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
I said "Christian, conservative and wealthy", but I mistakenly left out "white." He can't relate to anyone outside his own demographic, would be a better way to say it. It's not solely because of his religion, even though it's been my experience that most Christians see their religion as vastly different than Islam. Hillary has some experience already and she doesn't come off as phony.

And while the Secretary of State may do more tours of foreign countries, the President meets with foreign leaders regularly, as well as participates in various summits and addresses the UN. Just on his little latest little foreign jaunt he managed to annoy the Brits, the Pols and the Palestinians. Hell, he said that 47% of US citizens saw themselves as victims; he can't even relate to reality. If he was thinking he wasn't going to get those votes before, he sure as hell won't get them now. Yeah, he's a real man of the people.
I doubt Romney would do much anyway in his first term, like Obama. It's such a serious issue, those serious issues are more second term type things to deal with... they require more gravitas and more flexibility than someone facing elections or new to the office brings.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:39 PM   #18
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To be fair, I feel almost the same way about Obama. He doesn't relate very well to the "common man" either, and has an ego the size of a moon. But if I HAD to choose between the two, I'd rather have Obama. But, since I have options, I don't have to make that choice.

Can any of you Romney supporters convince me otherwise? If you're going to criticize my criticism of the man, tell me what makes you think he's fit to rule the world.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
To be fair, I feel almost the same way about Obama. He doesn't relate very well to the "common man" either, and has an ego the size of a moon. But if I HAD to choose between the two, I'd rather have Obama. But, since I have options, I don't have to make that choice.

Can any of you Romney supporters convince me otherwise? If you're going to criticize my criticism of the man, tell me what makes you think he's fit to rule the world.
Well... he's rich and according to GOP doctrine not only must have earned his money (all rich people earned it), he is also smarter and better than everyone else (that is implied by the achievement of being rich).

Since he is rich and Republican, he won't spend a lot of government money... because the GOP is for small government and a rich person knows all about money.

He understands the common American because he is religious and white.

...oh and he's not Obama or black. I just hope that Obama leaves the China in the cabinets on his way out- Black people steal... although at least he will not be surprised at being evicted. That happens to black people a lot.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:46 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Pinkheart View Post
Well... he's rich and according to GOP doctrine not only must have earned his money (all rich people earned it), he is also smarter and better than everyone else (that is implied by the achievement of being rich).
OK - let's get this straight ... he is smarter than everyone else because he is rich AND Republican ... we have lots of rich Democrats, but they are all idiots.

...And ... I believe most Republicans would dispute the "all rich earned it" line as well ... obviously rich thieving politicians who never held a job, millionaire fat cat union bosses who steal from the hard working middle class, and other rich democrats OBVIOUSLY didn't earn it ...

So ... can we dispense with the generalizations already ???
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Michael Cumberlan View Post

So ... can we dispense with the generalizations already ???
Well, that's no fun!
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:15 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
I said "Christian, conservative and wealthy", but I mistakenly left out "white." He can't relate to anyone outside his own demographic, would be a better way to say it.
Versus Obama, who is Christian, liberal, wealthy, and black. (Since I guess Muslims identify with darker colored skin or something.) Let's see. For Obama that is a tie, a loss, a tie, and a win? 1-1-2?

Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
It's not solely because of his religion, even though it's been my experience that most Christians see their religion as vastly different than Islam.
I see. So Christians are like Muslims when it helps your argument, but they are completely different than Muslims when it hurts your argument.

Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Hillary has some experience already and she doesn't come off as phony.
Condi Rice, former Secretary of State. Experience, black, female, Christian. Let's compare that with Hillary. Hillary has experience, is white, female, and Christian. Tie, loss, tie, tie. Seems like Hillary lost that match. What about Colin Powel, former Secretary of State?

Hmmm, Experience, black, male, Christian? I put the question mark on Christian because I honestly don't know that he has declared a religion, though as a moderate Republican and a politician, I assume he claims Christianity. So against Hillary that is a tie, a win, a win, and either a win or a loss, depending on whether your mood dictates that being a Christian is better or worse as far as a person's ability to relate to Muslims. So he is either 2-1-1 or 3-0-1. Either way, it seems that Powell comes out even better than Hillary.

This game is fun!

Why are you toeing the DNC line, Wildane? You are being fed this nonsense that Romney can't relate to anyone different than him. It comes straight from the Democrats' talking points, but the truth is that the Democrats' idea of relating to this or that "oppressed" group is to provide more entitlements. He can't relate to the plight of [insert oppressed group here] because he doesn't want to buy more of their votes with taxpayer money. This nonsense that Romney can't relate because he is wealthy, white, and Christian is just code for "he isn't like you." It's thinly veiled racism from the political party that only gave up on Jim Crow when it became politically more expedient to buy votes with government handouts than to secure its former base of prejudiced dirtbags.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:09 AM   #23
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I hate to say but, Chit is right on this one, kinda. The nuke question is a definate problem. Has anyone been listening to Iran's Leadership. They flat out come out and say they want to destroy Israel. If they get a nuke..... duh we are going to have nuke shooting war in the middle east. I have no reason not to support Israel on this one.

In the LONG GAME for us, supporting Israel only makes sense. It is the one nation in that geographical area where we can count on an alliance. Make no mistake boys and girls, radical Islam HAS decalred war on us and untill we smash them to little bits they are just going to keep coming and coming and coming until they destroy us. Iran is just the next step in a long war that we as a nation will eventually take seriously enough to do something about. I fear it is going to take a nuke on our soil to get us going and KEEP us doing something about it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:29 AM   #24
Pinkheart
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Originally Posted by Lith Ahntalon View Post
I hate to say but, Chit is right on this one, kinda. The nuke question is a definate problem. Has anyone been listening to Iran's Leadership. They flat out come out and say they want to destroy Israel. If they get a nuke..... duh we are going to have nuke shooting war in the middle east. I have no reason not to support Israel on this one.

In the LONG GAME for us, supporting Israel only makes sense. It is the one nation in that geographical area where we can count on an alliance. Make no mistake boys and girls, radical Islam HAS decalred war on us and untill we smash them to little bits they are just going to keep coming and coming and coming until they destroy us. Iran is just the next step in a long war that we as a nation will eventually take seriously enough to do something about. I fear it is going to take a nuke on our soil to get us going and KEEP us doing something about it.
I actually believe a second term Obama would look much more hardline on foreign policy than a first term. He knows that we can't have a nuclear Iran, but there is not as much he could do as a new President, and then facing re-election. Once he is back in, and alreayd in the game, I would expect much more than we have seen.

A new Romney would have to take time transitioning, learning, then building credibility. He probably wouldn't get much heavy lifting done until a second term, either. It's just the nature of the beast.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:26 AM   #25
Lith Ahntalon
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Originally Posted by Pinkheart View Post
I actually believe a second term Obama would look much more hardline on foreign policy than a first term. He knows that we can't have a nuclear Iran, but there is not as much he could do as a new President, and then facing re-election. Once he is back in, and alreayd in the game, I would expect much more than we have seen.

You are fooling yourself then. His past time in office has shown just the opposite. A second term would not give him a spine he has absolutely been without for almost four years now. When he thinks he is off mic he talks about "flexibility" on missle defense to the Russians, yea, there is some spine for ya.


Frankly Romney is a better choice in my opinion because he will not be spending money at a rate that would embarrass even a drunken sailor (even drunken sailors stop when they run out of money) and he has at least SOME CONCEPT on how to get us out of the hole Obama dug.
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Last edited by Lith Ahntalon; 09-26-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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