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Old 09-24-2012, 02:14 PM   #26
Drysdale
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Private enterprise doesn't seem to be doing much better with money.
Ahh... your ignorance abounds!

We don't really have private enterprise in this, or any other country (Exception: Hong Kong... maybe). What we have here is protectionist, Crony Capitalism. That's a far cry from private enterprise. And every time government gets involved, you look stupid by saying things like:

Did government create and then burst the housing bubble?
Even George Fucking W Bush was smart enough to try and stop the practices

So if Bush was an idiot, and even HE was smart enough to know that we were headed toward a disaster, what does that make you?
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:44 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
No, it's in the best interest of society to get government out of the business of paying for anything that isn't their job to pay for.

Go read the Constitution. It's pretty fucking clear what they're supposed to be paying for. If we didn't have bureaucrats in charge of science instead of scientists, we'd do a lot better.

In fact we'd probably have a small colony on the moon by now if the government hadn't stuck their noses into things. We'd also probably have had a manned mission to Mars. But that won't happen while companies are beholden to the lease efficient entity on the planet for largess and marching orders.
Yeah right. If the government hadn't stuck thier noses in things, we would still have child labor and sweatshops.

Government funding of projects doesn't necessarily mean government management of projects. There are plenty of projects where the government looks to the private sector- says "Go make this" and then throws them some cash. That makes them nothing more than a customer.

The problem is that the crony capitalism sets in, with not enough oversight to see that projects are completed on time and within budget. In other words, the customer (government) is inept... so business screws them over every chance it gets. But hey- private business isn't the problem, right? Private business won't screw over ANY customer it can get away with right? WRONG.

I agree that in many situations regulations are restrictive, but it is naive and foolish to believe unfettered business is some kind of altruistic force that will elevate us all. Have you ever heard of the Gilded Age?

I am all for free enterprise and free markets- within reason. Only a fool who hasn't learned from history wants to repeat its mistakes.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:38 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pinkheart View Post
Yeah right. If the government hadn't stuck thier noses in things, we would still have child labor and sweatshops.
I thought your beloved unions took care of that...

Government funding of projects doesn't necessarily mean government management of projects. There are plenty of projects where the government looks to the private sector- says "Go make this" and then throws them some cash. That makes them nothing more than a customer.
Ahh... like Solyndra? The Volt? Yeah... good example there Pinko. Oh, and it's not their cash to throw. It's yours and mine. Sure is easy spending other peoples' money, though, isn't it?

The problem is that the crony capitalism sets in, with not enough oversight to see that projects are completed on time and within budget. In other words, the customer (government) is inept... so business screws them over every chance it gets. But hey- private business isn't the problem, right? Private business won't screw over ANY customer it can get away with right? WRONG.
When private business angers the general population, they react by buying less of their shit. Or, another leaner better managed business comes along and supplants the business. Look at Best Buy, for example. They were the big shit, esp. after Circuit City went down. Now? They're fighting for their very existence due to the internet shops.

I agree that in many situations regulations are restrictive, but it is naive and foolish to believe unfettered business is some kind of altruistic force that will elevate us all. Have you ever heard of the Gilded Age?
Altruism? Screw altruism. Supply and demand are the forces we need to acknowledge. Punish the people who don't do what we want. Quit bailing out companies that are mismanaged. And most of all, quit choosing winners and losers to receive my money.

I am all for free enterprise and free markets- within reason. Only a fool who hasn't learned from history wants to repeat its mistakes.
Then why are you cheering Obama?
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

"Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
I thought your beloved unions took care of that...
No, actually.. I think unions are corrupt cesspits.

Ahh... like Solyndra? The Volt? Yeah... good example there Pinko. Oh, and it's not their cash to throw. It's yours and mine. Sure is easy spending other peoples' money, though, isn't it?
Like Oakley, BAE, Ratheon, and others. There are examples on both sides. Like I said, though... the customer is inept, and eventually it will turn to crud.

When private business angers the general population, they react by buying less of their shit. Or, another leaner better managed business comes along and supplants the business. Look at Best Buy, for example. They were the big shit, esp. after Circuit City went down. Now? They're fighting for their very existence due to the internet shops.
That's a cute theory taught in basic economics. What it doesn't account for is globalization. General population? Of what? Of which country? Fuck over people, who gives a shit? Sell crap all over the rest of the world. The economy isn't "contained" anymore. I guess you could piss off the majority of people in the world... but that would be difficult... and even then, you could still sell to other governments like China. Oversimplified economic theory is for basement dwelling eco-flunkies. Anyone with a brain now knows the money isn't in widgets... it's in derivative assets and paper created assets. Sure, there might be 1 100 million with a good idea, but just about anyone with a real financial education can make money off nothing... or other people.

Altruism? Screw altruism. Supply and demand are the forces we need to acknowledge. Punish the people who don't do what we want. Quit bailing out companies that are mismanaged. And most of all, quit choosing winners and losers to receive my money.
Okay quit... except that other governments will still subsidize- oops! Lost your market advantage! Punish people how? For what? For doing bad things in other countries? Or for just sending labor to other countries where they get tax breaks, cheap labor, few environmental regulations? Those countries are shit holes... you want to compete with them by making this place a shit hole, too? Great! As soon as things improve too much, they will move on to the next shit hole. Your economics 101 theories are outdated. (I keep seeing college textbook economics crap posted like it is gospel... it's not. A little tip: most of those models rely on the assumption that all other things are held constant- in real life all other things are NOT held constant.)

Then why are you cheering Obama?
Did I cheer Obama? I missed that.

In the end it's actually simple. Business DID piss people off. In fact, it pissed them off enough to go to government and use their voices to get the government involved. Now here you are whining about the result. Business had free reign, they have repeatedly fucked people over so many times, this is the result. This is not the cause... this is the effect. You are about 200 years too late. Have some arsenic in your rice while you think about that. Or some lead in your kids toys while you opine over too much regulation. Or maybe think about whether your car has those Bridgestone-Firestone tires that separated, but the cost/benefit analysis showed the deaths would be worth the profit. Boy, it sure would be better if the government minded its own business!

Last edited by Pinkheart; 09-25-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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