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Old 04-01-2009, 05:20 AM   #1
Drysdale
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Default No... Really.

This shit is getting REALLY old REALLY quick.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/po...-42158597.html

Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

It was nearly two weeks ago that the House of Representatives, acting in a near-frenzy after the disclosure of bonuses paid to executives of AIG, passed a bill that would impose a 90 percent retroactive tax on those bonuses. Despite the overwhelming 328-93 vote, support for the measure began to collapse almost immediately. Within days, the Obama White House backed away from it, as did the Senate Democratic leadership. The bill stalled, and the populist storm that spawned it seemed to pass.
But now, in a little-noticed move, the House Financial Services Committee, led by chairman Barney Frank, has approved a measure that would, in some key ways, go beyond the most draconian features of the original AIG bill. The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government. It would, like the tax measure, be retroactive, changing the terms of compensation agreements already in place. And it would give Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner extraordinary power to determine the pay of thousands of employees of American companies.
The purpose of the legislation is to "prohibit unreasonable and excessive compensation and compensation not based on performance standards," according to the bill's language. That includes regular pay, bonuses -- everything -- paid to employees of companies in whom the government has a capital stake, including those that have received funds through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The measure is not limited just to those firms that received the largest sums of money, or just to the top 25 or 50 executives of those companies. It applies to all employees of all companies involved, for as long as the government is invested. And it would not only apply going forward, but also retroactively to existing contracts and pay arrangements of institutions that have already received funds.
In addition, the bill gives Geithner the authority to decide what pay is "unreasonable" or "excessive." And it directs the Treasury Department to come up with a method to evaluate "the performance of the individual executive or employee to whom the payment relates."
The bill passed the Financial Services Committee last week, 38 to 22, on a nearly party-line vote. (All Democrats voted for it, and all Republicans, with the exception of Reps. Ed Royce of California and Walter Jones of North Carolina, voted against it.)
The legislation is expected to come before the full House for a vote this week, and, just like the AIG bill, its scope and retroactivity trouble a number of Republicans. "It's just a bad reaction to what has been going on with AIG," Rep. Scott Garrett of New Jersey, a committee member, told me. Garrett is particularly concerned with the new powers that would be given to the Treasury Secretary, who just last week proposed giving the government extensive new regulatory authority. "This is a growing concern, that the powers of the Treasury in this area, along with what Geithner was looking for last week, are mind boggling," Garrett said.
Rep. Alan Grayson, the Florida Democrat who wrote the bill, told me its basic message is "you should not get rich off public money, and you should not get rich off of abject failure." Grayson expects the bill to pass the House, and as we talked, he framed the issue in a way to suggest that virtuous lawmakers will vote for it, while corrupt lawmakers will vote against it.
"This bill will show which Republicans are so much on the take from the financial services industry that they're willing to actually bless compensation that has no bearing on performance and is excessive and unreasonable," Grayson said. "We'll find out who are the people who understand that the public's money needs to be protected, and who are the people who simply want to suck up to their patrons on Wall Street."
After the AIG bonus tax bill was passed, some members of the House privately expressed regret for having supported it and were quietly relieved when the White House and Senate leadership sent it to an unceremonious death. But populist rage did not die with it, and now the House is preparing to do it all again.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:13 AM   #2
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Well, if the government is the largest stakeholder in the company, I don't see a problem with them setting the rules.

This is kind of like covering a lie you've told by telling another lie; all you do is dig a deeper hole. The correct course of action would be to not lie* in the first place.

Lie = bailout
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:21 AM   #3
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When you say lie, you obviously mean driving drunk. So if you dont want to get convicted for driving drunk the 3rd time, you probably shouldnt have got convicted the first 2.

Look, I can make silly cross post comparisons too.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:36 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by FTFA
The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government.
Before we go all alarmist here, I just wanted to emphasize that last bit. Now, I think it's crap, I don't like it, and I think it serves to remind everyone why we don't like government in private enterprise.

That said, I think this also serves as a potent reminder of why it's a bad idea to take government money: you make them a direct stakeholder in your business, a majority shareholder. You reap what you sow.

Coincidentally, anyone notice that Ford hasn't taken a penny of the auto bailout money? Kinda seems brilliant in hindsight...
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1 View Post
When you say lie, you obviously mean driving drunk. So if you dont want to get convicted for driving drunk the 3rd time, you probably shouldnt have got convicted the first 2.

Look, I can make silly cross post comparisons too.
Hey Shard, grow a sense of fucking humor already.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:57 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Pafuna View Post
Coincidentally, anyone notice that Ford hasn't taken a penny of the auto bailout money? Kinda seems brilliant in hindsight...
And somehow they're still in business! Imagine that...
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:27 AM   #7
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Kill the Union.......... let companies actually own themselves again and non of this would be an issue, the only difference here Drys is that instead of the Union forcing big business to pay outrageous prices to employees is now government is trying to force them to pay .......well God only knows what kind of wages could go either way.

Im against both, fuck the Union and government should let businesses either make it or break it.

I realize some of you are all for unions, I think that they are like welfare, the ideals and intentions at first were good and they turned into nothing but pure evil.
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:04 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
Kill the Union.......... let companies actually own themselves again and non of this would be an issue, the only difference here Drys is that instead of the Union forcing big business to pay outrageous prices to employees is now government is trying to force them to pay .......well God only knows what kind of wages could go either way.

Im against both, fuck the Union and government should let businesses either make it or break it.

I realize some of you are all for unions, I think that they are like welfare, the ideals and intentions at first were good and they turned into nothing but pure evil.
Is there a white-collar finance union I'm missing out on? Or have you jumped from financial institutions to the auto industry here?
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:50 PM   #9
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As far as not taking baliouts, a heck of a lot of banks NEVER wanted anything to do with the bailout plan, BUT regulators "suggested" that they participate, and now they are screwed. When asked by reporters about this, some bank executives said basically, when a regulator recommends something, we don't question it, we just do it. Now THAT is the real problem with government interference in business.

Meltdown 101: Why some banks returned rescue money

tarp_money_going_to_banks_that_dont_need_it

I especially like in the second article where the government, having "forced" the money on banks, now is trying to exert control over them ... sounds a lot like organized crime, doesn't it ... I will protect you ... OK, now I want you to put cousin Luigi in charge because he needs a job.
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
Is there a white-collar finance union I'm missing out on? Or have you jumped from financial institutions to the auto industry here?
UNION period
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Old 04-02-2009, 05:52 AM   #11
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My point was really more along the lines of "wtf do unions have to do with AIG or other financial institutions?"

I, like the vast majority of finance professionals (derivatives quant jocks in AIG and elsewhere would probably laugh at a corporate finance slob like me lumping us together but screw those guys ) in the US, am not a member of a union. I negotiate my own salaries and benefits and work "at will" which means I can legally walk off the job tomorrow just as legally as my employer can lay me off tomorrow. Hardly a union-style set-up.

The UAW is certainly a contributor to the problems experienced by the auto industry, but they are by no means the only contributor there. I'm just not sure what that has to do with the original topic of AIG.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:42 PM   #12
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I must be confused, didnt think AIG was getting all the stimulus money, but either way I just think Unions suck and wanted to bitch about em somewhere thats all.
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Old 04-02-2009, 05:48 PM   #13
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The really sad part:

Consider what you would do if you worked for AIG.

Would you be:

A: cheering it on, hell you've got lots of money.

B: hoping and praying and making donations to every charity you can find on the chance that kharma will come back.

C: be sending resume's, possibly even with AIG removed or put in as "United States Government Outreach programs" to every company on earth up to and including Chuck E Cheese.



The company we own is going to do just super after we've weeded out everyone capable of getting another job ANYWHERE else.
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:58 AM   #14
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My one memorable experience with a union was about 20 years ago, company I was working for was setting up at a trade show. We were required to pay for two union people to stand around and watch us set up. Theoretically, they were there to setup for us, but, they had no clue about our equipment, so they stood around and watched us do it while we had to pay for them.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by GraemeFaelban View Post
My one memorable experience with a union was about 20 years ago, company I was working for was setting up at a trade show. We were required to pay for two union people to stand around and watch us set up. Theoretically, they were there to setup for us, but, they had no clue about our equipment, so they stood around and watched us do it while we had to pay for them.
MmmmMMM! Yessir, that's the crunchy goodness of union efficiency right there....
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by GraemeFaelban View Post
My one memorable experience with a union was about 20 years ago, company I was working for was setting up at a trade show. We were required to pay for two union people to stand around and watch us set up. Theoretically, they were there to setup for us, but, they had no clue about our equipment, so they stood around and watched us do it while we had to pay for them.
Be glad they didn't file a grievance against you for not letting them work!

I worked out at Lockheed in Ft Worth in the 90s. One of my coworkers had a grievance filed against him because he picked up a box that had fallen off of a forklift and put it back on the fork for the guy driving it.

No good deed goes unpunished.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:50 AM   #17
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What's really sad is all the good that unions accomplished in the past. In many respects the average 9-5er (regardless of whether they work in a union outfit or not) owes unions a lot in terms of the reasonableness of the lifestyle. But the nonsense a lot of them get into now (such as Graeme's and DD's stories- I've heard tons of similar accounts) makes people forget all of that.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
What's really sad is all the good that unions accomplished in the past. In many respects the average 9-5er (regardless of whether they work in a union outfit or not) owes unions a lot in terms of the reasonableness of the lifestyle. But the nonsense a lot of them get into now (such as Graeme's and DD's stories- I've heard tons of similar accounts) makes people forget all of that.
Oh, I agree. But that was then. Too bad they got waaaay too politicized and waaay too powerful.
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