GOP Platform - Page 2 - Erollisi Marr

Pinkheart · 09-05-2012, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Drysdale

... soooo you want to change the law.

Cool.

But everything you've written has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. Nice of you to completely miss the point.

Yeah, it does. The executive order temporarily blocks the deportation of people that, quite frankly help the country, while Congress gets off its obstructionary ass and solves the problem... of course that isn't happening... you have Republicans pissing and whining while doing nothing. They voted down the DREAM ACT... and proposed?

Oh yeah, nothing, they are the party of "No" and bitch and whine because nothing is happening. Just like they voted down the Act to bring jobs back from overseas. They are worthless and intentionally harming America for political opportunity.

Although it is *possible* that the Dems wouldn't stonewall Romney quite as hard as The Reps have Obama. Since he does flip flop, he might be more willing to compromise... it depends if he can keep the radicals under some control. Otherwise, it'll be 4 more years of gridlock. (Unless Reps win another supermajority... in which case, the country will be sold off to the highest bidder).

Chiteng · 09-05-2012, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Pinkheart

You could say that. Or you could say that it was caused by the USA, through ineffective policies and enforcement. In any case, the situation is what it is, and the priority should be closing the borders and preventing the problem from continuing. The ones that are here are here. Whatever effect they will have, they are having. There's no point trying to bucket water out of a sinking ship, we need to plug the holes. Once that is done, then we can look at who should stay or go... but considering the glacial pace of government, I doubt it will matter... it will be a generation or two too late.

No we need a leader who agrees that they should not be here, and enforces the existing laws.
Never reward a law breaker. NEVER

Pinkheart · 09-05-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Chiteng

No we need a leader who agrees that they should not be here, and enforces the existing laws.
Never reward a law breaker. NEVER

Yeah, except kids that grew up here aren't the law breakers. People serving in the military have earned their stay, imo.

That is who the deferral protects. It isn't a wholesale deferral, afaik.

I am all for starting to enforce and securing the border... for all the whining, I haven't seen that proposal.

Both parties support criminals... just different types.

Drysdale · 09-05-2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pinkheart

Yeah, it does. The executive order temporarily blocks the deportation of people that, quite frankly help the country, while Congress gets off its obstructionary ass and solves the problem... of course that isn't happening... you have Republicans pissing and whining while doing nothing. They voted down the DREAM ACT... and proposed?

So since Congress didn't make the law you want, it's OK to ignore Congress and make your own law? Because that's exactly what Obama did. It's not Obama's job to create laws. It's his job to carry them out, whether or not he likes them. That's the job of the executive branch, and he's botched it. Purposely. And you know it, and you're tap dancing like a fucking mule to try and justify it. You aren't even convincing yourself here. And all you're proving is that you have nothing but disdain for the Rule of Law.

Pinkheart · 09-05-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Drysdale

So since Congress didn't make the law you want, it's OK to ignore Congress and make your own law? Because that's exactly what Obama did. It's not Obama's job to create laws. It's his job to carry them out, whether or not he likes them. That's the job of the executive branch, and he's botched it. Purposely. And you know it, and you're tap dancing like a fucking mule to try and justify it. You aren't even convincing yourself here. And all you're proving is that you have nothing but disdain for the Rule of Law.

Umm, he didn't create a law. I think you are mad because you are clearly confused about what happened. I would be mad, too if he just started creating laws.

Chiteng · 09-05-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pinkheart

Yeah, except kids that grew up here aren't the law breakers. People serving in the military have earned their stay, imo.

That is who the deferral protects. It isn't a wholesale deferral, afaik.

I am all for starting to enforce and securing the border... for all the whining, I haven't seen that proposal.

Both parties support criminals... just different types.

Your point? Why am I obligated to support children that I did not have anything to do with the creation of?
That is the job of the PARENTS.

If a man robs a bank, and gives the money to his kids.....you say they get to keep it. I say, it is taken away from them, and returned to the owner.
Your compassion blinds your objectivity.

I am NOT obligated to support the worlds children. If I choose to try, that is a private decision. It is not coerced.
You want to coerce all the other citizens, to support the decisions of criminals.

Drysdale · 09-05-2012, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Pinkheart

Umm, he didn't create a law. I think you are mad because you are clearly confused about what happened. I would be mad, too if he just started creating laws.

Yes, in essence, he did. That's the whole fucking point. Congress didn't pass the provisions of his Dream act, so he went around their intent and enacted those provisions via Executive Order.

How does Obama have the authority to grant legal status to someone who didn't have legal status before he signed that EO? According to the laws on the books, that person had no legal right to be here.

Now he or she does.

That's a law, no matter how hard you hope for change. So no, you aren't mad that he's started creating laws.

The Obama administration issued a politically charged executive order that will make about 800,000 young people who were brought to the United States illegally as children safe from deportation proceedings, and may make them eligible for work permits.

Hmm... so people who shouldn't even be here are suddenly eligible for work permits... Yeah, that doesn't take a law or anything...

You're the one who's confused. But you want to be...

Pinkheart · 09-06-2012, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Drysdale

Yes, in essence, he did. That's the whole fucking point. Congress didn't pass the provisions of his Dream act, so he went around their intent and enacted those provisions via Executive Order.

How does Obama have the authority to grant legal status to someone who didn't have legal status before he signed that EO? According to the laws on the books, that person had no legal right to be here.

Now he or she does.

That's a law, no matter how hard you hope for change. So no, you aren't mad that he's started creating laws.

But he can't change their legal status and the waiver doesn't do that.

Hmm... so people who shouldn't even be here are suddenly eligible for work permits... Yeah, that doesn't take a law or anything...

You're the one who's confused. But you want to be...

It lets them apply for those permits without fear of deportation. There's a difference. The waiver ensures access, he didn't change eligibility and such. He just offered temporary protection so that those who are eligible for change of status can get into the system without fear of being deported.

It's like a drug program that offers rehab to users and someone ordering that people showing up to the program won't be arrested... it provides cover so that those that the program/service exist to help can access it. It isn't a wholesale waiver, it is targetted in who it helps... and it helps those groups that both parties agreed should be prioritized.

09-05-2012, 11:10 AM	#26
Pinkheart Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,913	Originally Posted by Drysdale ... soooo you want to change the law. Cool. But everything you've written has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. Nice of you to completely miss the point. Yeah, it does. The executive order temporarily blocks the deportation of people that, quite frankly help the country, while Congress gets off its obstructionary ass and solves the problem... of course that isn't happening... you have Republicans pissing and whining while doing nothing. They voted down the DREAM ACT... and proposed? Oh yeah, nothing, they are the party of "No" and bitch and whine because nothing is happening. Just like they voted down the Act to bring jobs back from overseas. They are worthless and intentionally harming America for political opportunity. Although it is possible that the Dems wouldn't stonewall Romney quite as hard as The Reps have Obama. Since he does flip flop, he might be more willing to compromise... it depends if he can keep the radicals under some control. Otherwise, it'll be 4 more years of gridlock. (Unless Reps win another supermajority... in which case, the country will be sold off to the highest bidder). Last edited by Pinkheart; 09-05-2012 at 11:19 AM.

09-05-2012, 12:35 PM	#27
Chiteng Supporter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 10,240	Originally Posted by Pinkheart You could say that. Or you could say that it was caused by the USA, through ineffective policies and enforcement. In any case, the situation is what it is, and the priority should be closing the borders and preventing the problem from continuing. The ones that are here are here. Whatever effect they will have, they are having. There's no point trying to bucket water out of a sinking ship, we need to plug the holes. Once that is done, then we can look at who should stay or go... but considering the glacial pace of government, I doubt it will matter... it will be a generation or two too late. No we need a leader who agrees that they should not be here, and enforces the existing laws. Never reward a law breaker. NEVER __________________ “It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.” Voltaire 'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough' French Priest

09-05-2012, 12:41 PM	#28
Pinkheart Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,913	Originally Posted by Chiteng No we need a leader who agrees that they should not be here, and enforces the existing laws. Never reward a law breaker. NEVER Yeah, except kids that grew up here aren't the law breakers. People serving in the military have earned their stay, imo. That is who the deferral protects. It isn't a wholesale deferral, afaik. I am all for starting to enforce and securing the border... for all the whining, I haven't seen that proposal. Both parties support criminals... just different types.

09-05-2012, 01:10 PM	#29
Drysdale RSS Feed Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,628	Originally Posted by Pinkheart Yeah, it does. The executive order temporarily blocks the deportation of people that, quite frankly help the country, while Congress gets off its obstructionary ass and solves the problem... of course that isn't happening... you have Republicans pissing and whining while doing nothing. They voted down the DREAM ACT... and proposed? So since Congress didn't make the law you want, it's OK to ignore Congress and make your own law? Because that's exactly what Obama did. It's not Obama's job to create laws. It's his job to carry them out, whether or not he likes them. That's the job of the executive branch, and he's botched it. Purposely. And you know it, and you're tap dancing like a fucking mule to try and justify it. You aren't even convincing yourself here. And all you're proving is that you have nothing but disdain for the Rule of Law. __________________ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North

09-05-2012, 01:24 PM	#30
Pinkheart Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,913	Originally Posted by Drysdale So since Congress didn't make the law you want, it's OK to ignore Congress and make your own law? Because that's exactly what Obama did. It's not Obama's job to create laws. It's his job to carry them out, whether or not he likes them. That's the job of the executive branch, and he's botched it. Purposely. And you know it, and you're tap dancing like a fucking mule to try and justify it. You aren't even convincing yourself here. And all you're proving is that you have nothing but disdain for the Rule of Law. Umm, he didn't create a law. I think you are mad because you are clearly confused about what happened. I would be mad, too if he just started creating laws.

09-05-2012, 02:31 PM	#31
Chiteng Supporter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 10,240	Originally Posted by Pinkheart Yeah, except kids that grew up here aren't the law breakers. People serving in the military have earned their stay, imo. That is who the deferral protects. It isn't a wholesale deferral, afaik. I am all for starting to enforce and securing the border... for all the whining, I haven't seen that proposal. Both parties support criminals... just different types. Your point? Why am I obligated to support children that I did not have anything to do with the creation of? That is the job of the PARENTS. If a man robs a bank, and gives the money to his kids.....you say they get to keep it. I say, it is taken away from them, and returned to the owner. Your compassion blinds your objectivity. I am NOT obligated to support the worlds children. If I choose to try, that is a private decision. It is not coerced. You want to coerce all the other citizens, to support the decisions of criminals. __________________ “It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.” Voltaire 'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough' French Priest

09-05-2012, 06:13 PM	#32
Drysdale RSS Feed Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20,628	Originally Posted by Pinkheart Umm, he didn't create a law. I think you are mad because you are clearly confused about what happened. I would be mad, too if he just started creating laws. Yes, in essence, he did. That's the whole fucking point. Congress didn't pass the provisions of his Dream act, so he went around their intent and enacted those provisions via Executive Order. How does Obama have the authority to grant legal status to someone who didn't have legal status before he signed that EO? According to the laws on the books, that person had no legal right to be here. Now he or she does. That's a law, no matter how hard you hope for change. So no, you aren't mad that he's started creating laws. The Obama administration issued a politically charged executive order that will make about 800,000 young people who were brought to the United States illegally as children safe from deportation proceedings, and may make them eligible for work permits. Hmm... so people who shouldn't even be here are suddenly eligible for work permits... Yeah, that doesn't take a law or anything... You're the one who's confused. But you want to be... __________________ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North

09-06-2012, 05:48 AM	#33
Pinkheart Registered User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,913	Originally Posted by Drysdale Yes, in essence, he did. That's the whole fucking point. Congress didn't pass the provisions of his Dream act, so he went around their intent and enacted those provisions via Executive Order. How does Obama have the authority to grant legal status to someone who didn't have legal status before he signed that EO? According to the laws on the books, that person had no legal right to be here. Now he or she does. That's a law, no matter how hard you hope for change. So no, you aren't mad that he's started creating laws. But he can't change their legal status and the waiver doesn't do that. Hmm... so people who shouldn't even be here are suddenly eligible for work permits... Yeah, that doesn't take a law or anything... You're the one who's confused. But you want to be... It lets them apply for those permits without fear of deportation. There's a difference. The waiver ensures access, he didn't change eligibility and such. He just offered temporary protection so that those who are eligible for change of status can get into the system without fear of being deported. It's like a drug program that offers rehab to users and someone ordering that people showing up to the program won't be arrested... it provides cover so that those that the program/service exist to help can access it. It isn't a wholesale waiver, it is targetted in who it helps... and it helps those groups that both parties agreed should be prioritized.

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