Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > NON EQ Stuff (Real life, other games, etc.) > Steam Vent


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2005, 09:12 AM   #1
Heretic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,762
Default The bigotry continues...

http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...nt_ID=65897253

Tennessee could join two other states that choose no parent over a gay parent.

Proposals by two Middle Tennessee lawmakers would forbid gays and lesbians from adopting or becoming foster parents to the thousands of children in state custody awaiting a family.

They say children need to be in traditional homes with a mother and father, the only recognized partnership in Tennessee. Gay parents could be confusing, they say.


But opponents say gays and lesbians provide loving homes that are far more stable for children than cycling in and out of foster care.

The proposal has alarmed Tennessee's gay and lesbian community more than any other issue this year, said Jerry Jones, publisher of Out & About newspaper. It's even more troubling than the proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage that lawmakers are poised to approve, he said.

About 50 gays and lesbians from across the state are scheduled to lobby lawmakers on Tuesday, which they are calling ''Advancing Equality Day on the Hill,'' on this and other matters, said Chris Sanders of the Tennessee Equality Project.

Gays and lesbians also fear that the proposals are so loosely written that they could block gays from even private adoptions, Sanders said.

Sen. Doug Jackson and Sen. Diane Black, who are sponsoring similar bills, said the legislation only addresses adoptions of children in state custody.

There were 9,853 children in state custody as of Jan. 31. Of those, 6,477 are in foster homes, said K. Danielle Edwards, spokeswoman for the Department of Children's Services.

Last year, 1,115 children in state custody were adopted.

''I do believe this policy should be established, but I don't feel wholly good about it,'' said Jackson, a Democrat from Dickson.

''Nobody wants to deprive another citizen of the opportunity to have children and have the experience of being parents. But I'm not looking at this issue from the perspective of the parents; we have to consider the interest of the child, also,'' he said.

Jackson said he may expand his bill to include unwed couples.

''We need to put children in a stable, wholesome home environment with traditional values that reflects the values of Tennessee,'' Jackson said.

The head of a children's advocacy group credited gays and lesbians for adopting children who often are difficult to find homes for — teenagers, those with behavioral problems and large sibling groups.

''What children need the most is a loving home — people who are committed to them to be there through thick and thin, and there are a lot of children in Tennessee who need a home,'' said Linda O'Neal, executive director of the Tennessee Commission on Children and Youth.

Florida bans homosexuals from adopting, and Mississippi prohibits adoption by same-sex couples, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

Currently, Tennessee does not ask about sexual orientation when screening people who want to adopt or become foster parents, Edwards said.

Nor is a person's sexual orientation a factor when deciding if they are suitable parents, she said. Singles, married couples and divorced people all are eligible, Edwards said.

That may be the official line, but Christopher Harris, a gay Nashvillian, said he felt his efforts to adopt from the state were blocked twice when he tried in 2000 and 2001.

He was turned down by a religiously affiliated private agency, too. He was finally able to adopt Maria, now 2, from another private adoption center, he said.

''As a pediatrician, having my own kid is vitally important to me,'' said Harris, who specializes in children with lung diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. He is an assistant professor there.

If people say they're concerned about the risks of putting children in gay homes, Harris said, they should note a study that was published in Pediatrics magazine in 1994. That report showed children in a study group were unlikely to have been molested by self-identified gays or lesbians.

Abby Rubenfeld, a Nashville family law attorney who handles adoptions and is herself lesbian, called the proposals ''unnecessary and mean-spirited.''

''You look in the paper every day and see problems with foster placements,'' Rubenfeld said. ''Those are not homosexual parents.''

There is no scientific proof that children raised by lesbian or gay parents are different from any other children, she said.

But Black, a Republican from Gallatin, responded that most studies include fine print that say there is not enough information to have a complete analysis.

Black said she was inspired to block gay adoptions because of a move now in the legislature to add language to the Tennessee Constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman.

''It's timely to look at other family issues,'' Black said. ''When we start putting children where we don't have a traditional family, eventually the value of the family will be weakened.''

Doug Brightwell, 41, who with his partner adopted a young boy four years ago, takes issue with Black's definition of a traditional family.

''We are raising him with all the same values we were both raised with — belief in God and responsibility to society,'' said Brightwell, an office manager for a Nashville veterinary clinic.

''We go to a Baptist church in town regularly. We have good relationships with extended families. Our son has lots of cousins, aunts and uncles. We stress school, honor and respect for elders,'' Brightwell said.

The couple wants to adopt again and may move if the adoption environment in the Volunteer State turns sour, he said.

''But we're optimistic,'' Brightwell said. ''We don't think a majority of people in Tennessee feel that way.''
This is getting insane. I was unaware that it was banned anywhere in the U.S., much less 2 states already. The funny thing is they claim to be doing it for what is best for a child. Yep, no home is better than a stable home. If we can't place them in a traditional two parent family, then by god they will get no family! So this is two wrongs...discrimination of gays and stopping the children from finding a home. If you even take out the gay stance, I am totally against the government legislating what they consider to be the 'proper' family. It also scares me that they are considering stopping singles from adopting.

I wonder how this affects homosexuals who have already adopted. I don't think they can take the kids away from them, but it is also unfair to say they can keep them and the new adoption hopefuls can't. Not that any of this is fair or makes sense. ARGH, what is wrong with people these days?
__________________
bg85 on another forum:
"i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit."

Heretic
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 10:03 AM   #2
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
Originally Posted by Heretic
If you even take out the gay stance, I am totally against the government legislating what they consider to be the 'proper' family.
I'm not particularly against gay or single people adopting kids. I think each case should be considered individually, and if a gay family or single person can provide the best home for the child, they should be given the opportunity, whether they fit "the mold" or not.

I do feel like the government has a right to set standards in that area. Things like, "Do they have the time to raise a child? Do they have an established history of stability or are they all over the place with jobs, desires, goals, etc.? Do they have the financial means to take care of a child?" I don't know that sexual orientation should necessarily be one of the deciding factors.

If the state is going to assume custody of a child, theoretically rescuing them from a bad situation, they have an obligation to place the child into a better situation, or, at the very least, a safe and viable situation. There have to be standards by which they judge "better". To take a child from a parent and place them in a similar situation accomplishes nothing.
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 10:11 AM   #3
Wildane
Psychopath w/a conscience
 
Wildane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Hospitality State, asshole!
Posts: 10,540
Originally Posted by Heretic
If you even take out the gay stance, I am totally against the government legislating what they consider to be the 'proper' family.
So, you think they should just let anybody adopt kids? Sure, fuck Social Services! What good are they?!
__________________
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
Wildane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 10:33 AM   #4
Deadscale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,140
Even while doing background checks on people, you'll still get crap like this wanting to adopt childen because they are able to come off as something else.

Think it was posted here a while back.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/fam...ure/index.html
__________________
I would like to extend to you an invitation to the pants party.
Deadscale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 11:15 AM   #5
Gauche
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
I'm really curious as to what these people think is wrong precisely with gay people adopting. Are they afraid of sexual abuse? Do they think gay people raise gay children? Are gay people simply too "bad" to raise a good child? Is it fear, ignorance, disgust, hatred, or false superiority that motivates this sort of thing, because it certainly isn't knowledge.
Gauche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 11:54 AM   #6
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
There are people out there that view homosexuality as a sexual deviance, not a normal lifestyle choice. In that light, it could be viewed as any other unhealthy obsession, alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc. While they might be OK with someone choosing to indulge their kink in their own time, teaching a child that it's a normal, acceptable way of life is entirely another thing.

I'm not saying that I particularly agree with it, but it's a line of thought I've heard expressed before.
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 01:06 PM   #7
Gauche
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by Brigiid
There are people out there that view homosexuality as a sexual deviance, not a normal lifestyle choice. In that light, it could be viewed as any other unhealthy obsession, alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc. While they might be OK with someone choosing to indulge their kink in their own time, teaching a child that it's a normal, acceptable way of life is entirely another thing.

I'm not saying that I particularly agree with it, but it's a line of thought I've heard expressed before.

True, that's one possibility that at least is supportable rationally. Of course, I doubt the people in charge check basements for personal dungeons, but I imagine people dressed in leather and latex and piercings galore have difficulty getting adoptions - assuming any of them want to adopt. Of course, considering how many "wild" kids I've met from strict upbringings, perhaps the "best" families for adoptions are the wildest non-abusive parents you can find.
Gauche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 01:51 PM   #8
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
Originally Posted by Gauche
but I imagine people dressed in leather and latex and piercings galore have difficulty getting adoptions - assuming any of them want to adopt.
Yeah, everybody's got secrets, but there's a limit to what they can actually find out.

If your name is Bob and you list Steve as your "spouse", and they ask what that's about and you say, "Oh, I'm gay." then OK. I don't know that there are checkboxes for some of the other fetishes and kinks out there.

Of course, you could always go to the meeting with the adoption coordinator...dressed up. Then they'd know!
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 02:53 PM   #9
Gauche
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by Brigiid
Yeah, everybody's got secrets, but there's a limit to what they can actually find out.

If your name is Bob and you list Steve as your "spouse", and they ask what that's about and you say, "Oh, I'm gay." then OK. I don't know that there are checkboxes for some of the other fetishes and kinks out there.

Of course, you could always go to the meeting with the adoption coordinator...dressed up. Then they'd know!

Sounds like all the gay couples wanting to adopt in Tennessee need to pull a page out of La Cage au Faux, or pair up boy-girl gays for sham marriages.
Gauche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 03:07 PM   #10
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
There are people out there that view homosexuality as a sexual deviance, not a normal lifestyle choice. In that light, it could be viewed as any other unhealthy obsession, alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc. While they might be OK with someone choosing to indulge their kink in their own time, teaching a child that it's a normal, acceptable way of life is entirely another thing.



Thats my view exactly Brigid, i think being homo is as much of a choice as being a drug addict. Do you want 2 drug addicts raising a baby? do you want 2 women who hate men raising a baby? do you want 2 men swapping gerbils and toolboxes up their can nightly raising a baby? nope not me. the fact they are gay shows they got some mental issues and would provide a poor environment for a child.

But i dont think the state raising a child is such a great idea either, in fact thats probably worse than sitting with John and Tony watching marathon episodes of Knitty Gritty and the John Lowell show. IMO if you want a child so badly you can bite the bullet and live your life like a normal person with someone of the opposite sex until you raise the baby to adulthood. Your responsibility first and foremost is to the child, you can act like a freak afterwards.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 05:52 PM   #11
Heretic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by Wildane
So, you think they should just let anybody adopt kids? Sure, fuck Social Services! What good are they?!
Way to miss the point. Of course there should be some standards for adoption. However, I don't think the government should blindly say that singles, gays, or unwed couples are unfit just based on their relationship status. I don't like them saying that all male/female two parent familys are 'better' than everyone elses situation.


Originally Posted by Gauche
Are they afraid of sexual abuse?
Yes, read the article. Our great Senator Diane Black says there is not enough study to prove that gays adopting children is danger for molestation. Seeing some of her stances on the issues when she was campaigning, I was almost as pissed when she won on election night as I was when Bush did.


Originally Posted by Gauche
Sounds like all the gay couples wanting to adopt in Tennessee need to pull a page out of La Cage au Faux, or pair up boy-girl gays for sham marriages.
Exactly what I was thinking. Unlike skin color or similar distinguishments, sexual orientation can hidden most of the time. Of course, they shouldn't have to to begin with.


Originally Posted by Chuk
i think being homo is as much of a choice as being a drug addict
Jesus, are we still stuck on these 'the sky isn't blue!' denials? Tell me chuk, at what age did you choose to be straight? Could you make yourself be gay and not be attracted to women any more if you so wanted?


Originally Posted by Chuk
do you want 2 women who hate men raising a baby?
Who says lesbians have to hate men?


Originally Posted by Chuk
do you want 2 men swapping gerbils and toolboxes up their can nightly raising a baby?
This goes with the bondage and other 'sexual deviances' argument earlier. Its not like the parents are going to be having sex in front of their children. Who cares what they do in their bedroom. I'm sure there are plenty of straight married couples who do stuff in their bedroom that you would consider sick.


Originally Posted by Chuk
IMO if you want a child so badly you can bite the bullet and live your life like a normal person with someone of the opposite sex
I can't believe you are advocating something like this. Why should they have to deny the way they are? Also, just because something isn't 'normal' or in other words 'the great majority' doesn't necessarily mean its 'wrong'. I'm sure the majority of people don't go out with someone with a 20 year age difference, but does that necessarily make it wrong?


Originally Posted by Chuk
Your responsibility first and foremost is to the child, you can act like a freak afterwards.
Who says the sex will come before the child? Also you could say the same about the state. The well being of the child is first and foremost, you can act like a bigot afterwards.
__________________
bg85 on another forum:
"i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit."

Heretic
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 07:02 PM   #12
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
Thats my opinion Heretic, You're not going to change that as much as you disagree with it. At least im honest about it, something you wont get from most others.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2005, 07:40 PM   #13
korast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,846
Originally Posted by Heretic
Who says lesbians have to hate men?
Me
korast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 01:20 AM   #14
Heretic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,762
Chuk, would you mind answering the 2 questions I posted above?

Korast, you have reasoning for that?
__________________
bg85 on another forum:
"i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit."

Heretic
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 01:52 AM   #15
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
You didnt ask me 2 questions and they were rhetorical i thought. Well anyway here goes. If you dont like my answers then you should stop asking the questions.

I can't believe you are advocating something like this. Why should they have to deny the way they are?
Denying who what is what? gay people are not born, there is no gay race or creed. Its all about choice. drug addicts werent born drug addicts, gay people were not born gay. You pick the way you wish to lead your life. And im perfectectly within my right not to associate with people who choose to do things i dont care for.


Also, just because something isn't 'normal' or in other words 'the great majority' doesn't necessarily mean its 'wrong'. I'm sure the majority of people don't go out with someone with a 20 year age difference, but does that necessarily make it wrong?

If hes 25 and shes 5 i would say it was.

Who says the sex will come before the child?
Who says it wont?
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 02:36 AM   #16
Heretic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by Chuk
Who says it wont?
It won't anymore than a straight couple. People who speak out against homosexuals can't seem to get the gay sex out of their mind. Its like they think gays have sex 24 hrs a day. Most of the time they will be just going about their routine like 'normal' people.


Originally Posted by Chuk
You didnt ask me 2 questions and they were rhetorical i thought.
The one you just answered was rhetorical, but somewhat related. Sorry, forgot that was there. See below...


Originally Posted by Chuk
gay people were not born gay
To this statement are the questions I asked....

1) Tell me chuk, at what age did you choose to be straight?

2) Could you make yourself be gay and not be attracted to women any more if you so wanted?
__________________
bg85 on another forum:
"i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit."

Heretic
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 02:47 AM   #17
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
1) Tell me chuk, at what age did you choose to be straight?
I had my first gf when i was 11, she was 13 i chose to kiss her. Nothing made me do it i wasnt naturally born with my lips attached to her face.

2) Could you make yourself be gay and not be attracted to women any more if you so wanted?
I can choose to act like a normal person and not disturb the welfare of a child quite easily.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 06:28 AM   #18
korast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,846
Originally Posted by Heretic
Korast, you have reasoning for that?
No, you said nothing about reasons. Are you going to deny my right to say it? Funny liberal.
korast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 08:06 AM   #19
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
This thread is ghey.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 08:30 AM   #20
Martigan
Supporter
 
Martigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Juan Bautista, CA
Posts: 4,461
Send a message via AIM to Martigan
Homosexuality does not qualify for the "bigotry realm" in my book.
Martigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 08:30 AM   #21
Xerion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,215
Originally Posted by chukzombi
Denying who what is what? gay people are not born, there is no gay race or creed. Its all about choice.
Uh huh and some male sheep suddenly choose to fuck other male sheep. First you say it's a disease and now you say it's a choice?
Xerion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 08:32 AM   #22
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
Originally Posted by Heretic
Tell me chuk, at what age did you choose to be straight?
Unless I've missed a major scientific breakthrough, they still haven't located a gene that makes you gay. Race isn't a choice you can make. You can't choose your parents or their heritage. You can choose who you have sex with.
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 08:38 AM   #23
Ample Rogue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 60
Anytime Deviant behaviour is blamed on genetics, a slippery slope is approached. Let's forget what is considered "deviant" for a minute and look at what is FACT.

There are certain things a person is born as such as gender, eye color, hair color and other physical attributes. It can also be argued that certain mental attributes are genetically controlled, although education can change that somewhat. Diet and exercise can change physical attributes somewhat, such as height, weight, etc... but they are still mostly genetically coded.

Then we get into behavior. You Yanks made a funny movie called "Trading Places" with Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy that although a comedy, does make one think of environment vs genetics. Much behaviour is learned, that is a fact, but some behaviour is genetic. A human is basically born "selfish" and "survival" is the base instinct. But there is also a need for companionship and friendship. Those needs are genetically encoded, but how they are achieved, how one makes friends, choses a mate, runs relationships is learned.

From a personal viewpoint, romantic love between two people of the same gender seems to go against everything natural. I have read in your news that you have 30 year old women who say they are romantically attracted to 12 year old boys, this, too, seems unnatural. Just my opinion, but it would seem that people who have these types of attractions just might have some mental and/or emotional issues that go deeper than their ******d physical attractions. One reason given for attraction to the same gender is that they "understand me" better than someone of the opposite gender. While this may be true, this attraction for the same gender should be more towards a friendship and NOT a romance. In Nature, Romance is designed for two beings of opposite gender. To chose to be romantic with someone of the same gender does appear to be a choice more than a genetic design. From a scientific, logical and reasoning viewpoint, not even counting procreation, romance needs to be established between two genders so that the differences can compliment each other, and the similarities can be enhanced.

I am not making a "judgment" here, just an observation.

As for two of the same gender raising a child, that would be less favorable to the child than a mother and father, but might be better than the state. Tough call to make there.
Ample Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 09:02 AM   #24
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Ample Rogue
I have read in your news that you have 30 year old women who say they are romantically attracted to 12 year old boys, this, too, seems unnatural.
Do you think you are the only non-American on these boards? Or that "our news" is so much more different than the "news" in your country?
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2005, 09:13 AM   #25
Muertissimo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,264
Send a message via AIM to Muertissimo
Ok now, so considering that biologically speaking the poop chute is meant for outflow only (Stuff may fit up there, but that doesn't mean it's supposed to be there. Ask my girlfriends who said no way Jose!). Wouldn't that mean if gay people are genetically born gay, that they would effectively be born with a defect? Kind of like a retard?

I don't care how you slice it, the human body was designed for procreation and survival of the species. The people here saying that it's something you're born with, are basically saying that there's something wrong genetically with someone to turn them gay.

Gay people are barking up the wrong tree, they should be fighting for equality for handicaps!
__________________
Muertissimo Drachmarr
Pain Dread Blood Lord......Thingy
Proud member of Greylords
Greylords EQ2 too!
Retired member of
Midnight Fury (r.i.p.)


"And I looked, and behold a pale horse. And his name that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed with him."--Revelation 6:8
"Your greatest creation, is the life you lead."
Muertissimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.