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Old 12-16-2009, 06:06 AM   #1
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Default How can anyone seriously support this?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-79253352.html
Today's report from the non-partisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget is a sobering read:
Over the past year alone, the public debt of the United States rose sharply from 41 to 53 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). Under reasonable assumptions, the debt is projected to grow steadily, reaching 85 percent of GDP by 2018, 100 percent by 2022, and 200 percent in 2038.However, before the debt reached such high levels, the United States would almost certainly experience a debt-driven crisis — something previously viewed as almost unfathomable in the world’s largest economy.
"Public debt" refers to the portion of the debt not held by the government in its various trust funds.
The solution, the report states, must revolve around reforms to "programs that are growing faster than the economy -- notably Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and certain tax policies." (The latter is identified elsewhere as the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003.) These cheery-eyed suggestions are the most frightening part of the report. They are so obvious, and they have so little chance of being put into effect.
The current Democratic Congress is always happy to lean harder on the taxpayer, but that well is pretty shallow and already running dry, and higher taxes will not help the cause of future growth. And as for the entitlement reforms -- the most important part of any fiscal solution for the U.S. government -- widespread dependency on entitlements has made reform politically impossible. Republicans were turned back by the special interests blocking Social Security reform in 2005. Democrats' planned cuts to Medicare have made senior citizens the strongest opponents of President Obama's planned health care reforms.
What does a fiscal crisis look like? The report offers a few small hints:
Well before the debt approaches such startling heights, fears of inflation and a prospective decline in the value of the dollar would cause investors to demand higher interest rates and shift out of U.S. Treasury securities. The excessive debt would also affect citizens in their everyday lives by harming the American standard of living through slower economic growth and dampening wages, and shrinking the government's ability to reduce taxes, invest, or provide a safety net.
The national path of least resistance leads to that or something like it, and neither party seems equipped or prepared to prevent it.
I'm dumbfounded by Bubbles' cheer leading of this regime. Seriously!
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:52 AM   #2
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In fairness, Bush and the Republican controlled congress period of the mid 2000s did little to help pay down the debt. There's always some excuse for the government to grow spending, and it's been easy to borrow money.

While Obama's taken it to whole new levels, eventually the piper is going to come due. Also scary is that one of the leading causes (supposedly) of the current financial crisis is the Fed Reserve leaving interest rates so low after the 2001-2002 recession - and now it's doing the same (only even more so).
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:35 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell View Post
In fairness, Bush and the Republican controlled congress period of the mid 2000s did little to help pay down the debt. There's always some excuse for the government to grow spending, and it's been easy to borrow money.

While Obama's taken it to whole new levels, eventually the piper is going to come due. Also scary is that one of the leading causes (supposedly) of the current financial crisis is the Fed Reserve leaving interest rates so low after the 2001-2002 recession - and now it's doing the same (only even more so).
Oh, I'm not giving Bush a pass. Hell, I'm not even giving Reagan a pass. But Obama and his mates make all the others look like Pikers.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:12 AM   #4
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Default Peter Schiff Tells it Straight

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Old 12-16-2009, 04:12 PM   #5
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There will be only one solution to the up-coming crisis - A one world currency.

As a matter of fact, I wouldnt be a bit surprised if the current admin isnt spending like drunken sailors in anticipation of a global currency...knowing that it will fix the ills brought by their actions.

All of this, however, not before we enact some serious freedom-restricting, and governmental control laws....
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:24 PM   #6
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yes one world currency/ great idea if you take the human factor out. And figure out how to convince everyone else its a good idea.

which will happen when the sea levels start to envelop Colorado springs.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SupportTank View Post
yes one world currency/ great idea if you take the human factor out. And figure out how to convince everyone else its a good idea.

which will happen when the sea levels start to envelop Colorado springs.
I suspect it will start as an optional currency. After a few years, the banks (and mints) will slowly start to destroy the current country's currency.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:45 PM   #8
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Well, every day, about $3.98 trillion dollars (US) in global currency trading takes place, and there's a lot of very rich, influential folks in rich, influential financial firms skimming their 0.1% or so off of that (and I think the government is figuring out they could also skip a few basis points as well). So I suspect multiple currencies aren't going to go away. Right now, probably the real question is how long the Chinese are going to prop up the dollar. If they stop, they're going to get screwed for awhile - but how long do they keep throwing good money after bad?

The funny thing about the snippet from Peter Schiff is I don't think anyone at CNBC listened to a word he said, much less understood it. And he's just smiling, thinking about all the Chinese real estate he's been buying, and wondering how long to ride that.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rheaton View Post
I suspect it will start as an optional currency. After a few years, the banks (and mints) will slowly start to destroy the current country's currency.
Canadian tire money has never caught on as a second currency in canada despite the fears of the banks 30 years ago.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by SupportTank View Post
Canadian tire money has never caught on as a second currency in canada despite the fears of the banks 30 years ago.
Nice Chiteng-esque hyperbole there. Consider this: The Euro.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:01 AM   #11
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Some interesting info on currency out today - looks like the Gulf states are trying to replicate the success of the Euro. Now, I'd argue what we're going to see, over the next few years, is a drive to several strong currencies (dollar, Euro, yuan, yen, maybe the rupee (interesting to see India buying gold)) sharing "reserve status", compared to a few decades ago, where there was the dollar and basically "everything else".

Gulf petro-powers to launch currency in latest threat to dollar hegemony

The Arab states of the Gulf region have agreed to launch a single currency modelled on the euro, hoping to blaze a trail towards a pan-Arab monetary union swelling to the ancient borders of the Ummayad Caliphate.

The Gulf monetary union pact has come into effect,” said Kuwait’s finance minister, Mustafa al-Shamali, speaking at a Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC) summit in Kuwait.

The move will give the hyper-rich club of oil exporters a petro-currency of their own, greatly increasing their influence in the global exchange and capital markets and potentially displacing the US dollar as the pricing currency for oil contracts. Between them they amount to regional superpower with a GDP of $1.2 trillion (£739bn), some 40pc of the world’s proven oil reserves, and financial clout equal to that of China.

Dubai, Abu Dhabi stock markets rise Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Qatar are to launch the first phase next year, creating a Gulf Monetary Council that will evolve quickly into a full-fledged central bank.

The Emirates are staying out for now – irked that the bank will be located in Riyadh at the insistence of Saudi King Abdullah rather than in Abu Dhabi. They are expected join later, along with Oman.

The Gulf states remain divided over the wisdom of anchoring their economies to the US dollar. The Gulf currency – dubbed “Gulfo” – is likely to track a global exchange basket and may ultimately float as a regional reserve currency in its own right. “The US dollar has failed. We need to delink,” said Nahed Taher, chief executive of Bahrain’s Gulf One Investment Bank.

The project is inspired by Europe’s monetary union, seen as a huge success in the Arab world. But there are concerns that the region is trying to run before it can walk.

Europe took 40 years to reach the point where it felt ready to launch a currency. It began with the creation of the Iron & Steel Community in the 1950s, moving by steps towards a single market enforced by powerful Commission and European Court. The EMU timetable was fixed at the Masstricht in 1991 but it took another 11 for euro notes and coins to reach the streets.

Khalid Bin Ahmad Al Kalifa, Bahrain’s foreign minister, told the FIKR Arab Thought summit in Kuwait that the project would not work unless the Gulf countries first break down basic barriers to trade and capital flows.

At the moment, trucks sit paralysed at border posts for days awaiting entry clearance. Labour mobility between states is almost zero.

“The single currency should come last. We need to coordinate our economic policies and build up common infrastructure as a first step,” he said.

Mohammed El-Enein, chair of the energy and industry committee in Egypt’s parliament, said Europe’s example could help the Arab world achieve its half-century dream of a unified currency, but the task requires discipline. “We need exactly the same institutions as the EU has created. We need a commission, a court, and a bank,” he said.

The last currency to trade in souks from Marakesh, to Baghdad and Mecca, was the Ottomon Piaster, known as the “kurush”. It suffered chronic inflation as the silver coinage was debased.

There is a logic to an Arab currency. The region speaks one language, has the unifying creed of “Umma Wahida” or One Nation from the Koran, and has not torn itself apart in savage wars – ever – in quite the way that Europe has in living memory.

Yet hurdles are formidable even for the tight-knit group of Gulf states. While the eurozone is a club of rough equals – with Germany, France, Italy, and Spain each holding two votes on the ECB council – the Gulf currency will be dominated by Saudi Arabia. The risk is that other countries will feel like satellites. Monetary policy will inevitably be set for Riyadh’s needs.

Hans Redeker, currency chief at BNP Paraibas, said the Gulf states may have romanticised Europe’s achievement and need to move with great care to avoid making the same errors.

“The Greek crisis has exposed the weak foundations on which the euro is built. The gap in competitiveness between core Europe and the periphery has grown wider and wider. The obvious mistake was to launch EMU without a central fiscal authority and political union, as the Bundesbank warned in the 1990s,” he said.

“The euro was created for political reasons after the fall of the Berlin Wall to lock Germany irrevocably into Europe. It was not done for economic reasons,” he said.

Ben Simpfendorfer, Asia economist for RBS and an expert on the Middle East, told the FIKR conference that the rise of China had paradoxically disrupted the case for pan-Arab economic integration.

There was a natural fit ten years ago between rich oil state and low-wage manufacturers in Egypt and Syria, but cheap exports from China have forced poorer Arab states to retreat behind barriers to shelter their industries. “The rationale for a single currency has become weaker,” he said.

The GCC also agreed to create a joint military strike force – akin to the EU’s rapid reaction force – to tackle threats such as the incursion of Yemeni Shiite rebels into Saudi territory earlier this year.

This is a major breakthrough after years of deadlock on defence cooperation.

The Sunni Gulf states are deeply concerned about the great power ambitions of Shiite Iran and its quest for nuclear weapons, to the point where the theme of a possible war between Iran and a Saudi-led constellation of states has crept into the media debate.

They nevertheless repeated on Tuesday that “any military action against Iran” by Western powers would be unacceptable.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:05 AM   #12
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I think Europe is a special situation. you have a pile of small countries very few of them have any buying power. in effect what they have done is attempt to create a European version of the USA. It may work but it isn't going to happen in 10 or 20 years.

You will NOT see this happen in Africa or the middle east any time soon.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SupportTank View Post
I think Europe is a special situation. you have a pile of small countries very few of them have any buying power. in effect what they have done is attempt to create a European version of the USA. It may work but it isn't going to happen in 10 or 20 years.

You will NOT see this happen in Africa or the middle east any time soon.

Heh... You sure?
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:23 AM   #14
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the gulf is not the middle east, Also. the sunni and the Shiites <sp> ? do Not get along have Never gotten along. and as far as i can tell. will Never get along. they are usually trying to kill each other.

then you have the kurds. No one In the middle east Likes the kurds.

and on and on and one.

the guys with the Stable states in and around the middle east are Not the whole middle east.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:26 AM   #15
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They're a pretty significant chunk of it. And you never said the whole middle east. Hell, the whole of Europe doesn't use the Euro either. Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Sweden and the UK still retain their own currencies.
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Last edited by Drysdale; 12-17-2009 at 05:41 AM.
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