Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > EverQuest > Rants and Flames


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-19-2003, 10:32 AM   #26
Kerryn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Keren, Naboo
Posts: 1,030
I think what's more likely is that "some" of the top end guilds on many different servers would just prefer that you joined the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best guild on the server and just use them until you get what you need to apply for the top end guild.

More and more this becomes less of an issue but it was at it's height about 12-18 months ago when you couldnt join the top 5 guilds on any server without equipment you could only gain from being in them.

As things like insta-clicks and tov armour is easier to obtain its not so much of an issue.

But there are plenty of guilds out there that require you are flagged for all but the elemental plains and have your VT key.

To the best of my knowledge very few people outside the top end guilds have acess to these things.

It's kind of like the "You cannot have this job until you have experience of doing this job" catch 22 situation.
Kerryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 11:15 AM   #27
Parascol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 196
Everything you mentioned can be done w/out a guild. Insta-clicks are easy to obtain. Certain flags that require large raid forces you could do. Look at Nire. I never really knew the guy, but he was like the pickup raid king back in the day. Keys? Every key out there you can do on your own for the most part. Think if you applied saying, "all 10 shards for VT key, just need rift." would look, rather then no VT key?

Anyhow, I think your just down on yourself. Take some initiative and you can go a long way in this game. Just be patient and be resourceful. I do admit it's easier with a guild to help, but it's not impossible.

Good luck to you =)
__________________
Parascol
Lord Protector of Tunare
Affliction
Parascol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 11:25 AM   #28
Théodwyn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Norrath
Posts: 653
I posted this elsewhere during a relevant conversation. I'll repost it here, it's just an observation of mine. An opinion I've developed over time.

In a family guild, communication and personality mean everything. A misunderstanding very easily chain-reacts. The bigger the family gets, the broader the repercussions. You can't talk the way you used to, if someone else doesn't understand you well enough. A little thing turns into a big one, and even if you kinda sorta seem to get over it, if it festers inside someone, it blows up again later. Probably even uglier, and with a ton more vehemence. Critical mass. It just gets too big.

And yet raid guilds seem to do just fine with huge membership numbers?

Does that mean that the family guild concept is doomed from the start?

I asked myself both those things a year ago.

The answer is no to both points.

The best raid guilds are not really that huge. Have tons of hotboxing too, oddly enough.

You know what they are?

Picky.

Really really picky. Level 65 with 60 AA means something to them. It has a direct relevance to their play style. And that play style has a direct correlation to their goals and priorities.

Fires of Heaven, Afterlife, Conquest, Magister don't seem to have implosion issues or dangers. Why? Because at the bottom line, they are power gamers. [They know what they want, they know what it takes, and they refuse to waste each others time in going about their business.] And they will make sacrifices for those priorities. You step out of line, you're out on your ass. Instantly. [Or you never make it in in the first place.]

Understand this well. The level 65 and 60 AA wasn't the true criteria. The true criteria is that you want what they want.

The same is true for a family guild to succeed. [You have to want the same things.]
Théodwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 11:26 AM   #29
Théodwyn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Norrath
Posts: 653
FYI -- That's a direct quote from another post of mine on another board. Not trying to sound preachy, but I was explaining it to friends in a straight-to-the-point no-nonsense manner.

Theo
Théodwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 11:35 AM   #30
Théodwyn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Norrath
Posts: 653
Another explanation, same point, different wording.

This quote from Afterlife's board.

Players from other servers are welcome to apply, however, know that you must be well above the minimum qualifications to have any chance of joining. We require a list of references and guild history from your current server to verify quality. Those that are trying to escape a bad reputation on their home server, aren't welcome in Afterlife.
Those that transfer, beyond having excellent reputations, also must meet the cross-server requirements listed above. Thus where a MM monk requires 42 AA to apply, a transfer monk will need 84.

The higher the AA total, the better. We don't require high AA totals for the power it gives, instead, high AA totals show a desire and willingness to put forth time to better your character, regardless of the difficulties. It shows the ability to invest large amounts of time into the game. In short, it shows a willingness to do whatever is necessary in order to be the best. It doesn't matter how skilled a player is, if that player is never around, he/she is of no use. If that player never spends time obtaining keys, that player is of no use.

Note too that many Afterlife players reached 100AA months ago. 84 AA is not unreasonable.

Those that pass the screening process, and are asked to transfer, will be given cash to re-equip with. It's a big step to make the transfer, and we respect those that make the sacrifice.

Transferring clerics are given special priority.

Note that we don't need people, we have plenty. Occasionally, however, someone exceptional from another server will wish to apply. Now there is a process in place that allows this to happen.

And here's
Fires of Heaven
's take on it.

I personally think they're pretty honest about why they want what they want, and that they explain it pretty well.

Theo
Théodwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 01:53 PM   #31
Vinmar the Wizard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 14
Default Hello Sreth

Hello Sreth,

There are some of us out here who are approaching "Quality rather than Quantity" in a different way, before you get too down in the dumps. Our way is no better than others, and others no better than ours, just different. We are a guild that has been, and always will be, as open to members at lvl 5 as it is to lvl 65. We believe that the person sitting behind the character is the most important thing in regards to membership, not any collection of electrons bustling through circuits to render an image on a monitor. There are countless members of our guild I would give up a full tilt AA lvl 65er for simply due to their personal nature, and experience in the game, not experience in levels.

Our guild is primarily a series of educational systems, teaching the game and tactics to others, and we are instituting new learning systems all the time. We have been here doing this for 3 years now, and will continue to. Eventually you will find that many hundreds of people here in E Marr started out with us, or guilds like us. Again not a matter of right and wrong, better or worse, etc...Just a different approach. We make room for the powergamer and casual player as best we can. We make room for everyone. Some are so casual they fall out of the guild, finding it too much of a commitment, some leave the guild finding it not intensive enough, but one thing I think any Guardian or ex-Guardian would say...they learn things while with us. There are more guilds out there like us than you think...a veritable underswell of younger or smaller guilds forming communities, not pro mercenary units or soldier of fortune armies.

Making room for everyone is hard, but everyone can find a place if they dig deep enough. I am personally VERY GLAD the uber, strict entry, rotation camping guilds are out there. It gives our members somewhere to go when they feel they are ready for something more time intensive, and 78% of our leaving members to date have kept an alt in the guild to stay in touch with their first EQ community...us

Have faith my friend. If you are pleased to know that there are many guilds out here like us, then be just as pleased about there being the guilds with strict entrance requirments and tight military structures...
diversity on a server=many different perspectives...
many different perspectives=development...
development=Erolissi Marr being a home we can ALL be proud of

"We all breathe the same air, or wear the same EB items..."
Vinmar the Wizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 04:04 PM   #32
Meagan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 152
As I said before, I don't have access to the elemental planes yet and there a couple mobs pre-elemental that I haven't foughten yet. So far in my xp with PoP I have not yet had a large reason to use resist gear. I can think of a few mobs that some people might find it useful. Hell, last night in solro I was finding it useful on one particular mob. I'm sure they will be required in the elementals, PoFire sounds like this might be a good place for resist gear :P. Can only speak from my experience though.
Meagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 04:58 PM   #33
Vespay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 330
That really isn't a proper analogy. The mobs being killed now were not around when we did not have AA's. Therefore there really isn't much of a basis for comparison. (More specifically PoP mobs, since AA's were somewhat low during parts of Luclin)
I was talking about the luclin mobs really. When it first came out we were all exploring and killing things with little or no AA, that's what I was referring to, just thought I'd clear that up.

I never said anything about PoP mobs, because I guess we'll never really know if we're capable of takin down the PoP mobs without AA's .. if you get what I'm trying to say.

But bottom line, I do believe that AA's help out considerably, that's a given. But some guild requirements I have seen are kinda rediculous
__________________
Vespay Twilightkicker
I only troll the boards every other night.
Vespay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2003, 05:18 PM   #34
Sarkam Warbringer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 444
Send a message via AIM to Sarkam Warbringer
Actually Vespay, most Magister had 20 or so AA when we started raiding Luclin, and about 50 at least when we downed emperor.

AA is intregal in any kind of high end productive raiding. I'm sure in a perfect world we could just all line up and take the AHR, RZ, and Xegony loots without any kind of effort spent on personal character development, but this is not that world.
Sarkam Warbringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 12:00 AM   #35
Vespay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 330
I understand perfectly that AA's help out a considerably, but all I'm saying is that not ALL guilds had a billion of them, and they still succeeded at taking down the mobs.

That's all I'm trying to point out, heh. Bottom line, I'm done discussing it

But some guilds shall always remain with VERY high standards, some of which you would need a previous good guild to help you aquire some of what the other guild expects from you. That is all ...

Is it too late to change the subject and wish everyone an early happy easter?
__________________
Vespay Twilightkicker
I only troll the boards every other night.
Vespay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 02:25 AM   #36
Zaniel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 357
Originally posted by Kerryn
I think what's more likely is that "some" of the top end guilds on many different servers would just prefer that you joined the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best guild on the server and just use them until you get what you need to apply for the top end guild.
In spite of the fact that some guild "drifting" does happen most guilds don't do this as entities. You'll get the occasional guildie who wants their bestest buddy in some other guild to come join him but thats about it. I say most because occasionally some tasteless attempts at poaching occur but not often.

More and more this becomes less of an issue but it was at it's height about 12-18 months ago when you couldnt join the top 5 guilds on any server without equipment you could only gain from being in them.
Whilst AA requirements can sometimes be ruthless gear requirements rarely are. We've accepted not a few recent members in Aff that have had totally rotten gear, it doesn't matter to us because they very quickly pick up gear that is "spare" to us but better than anything you can get outside a raid guild.

Ability to pay attention/work with others & help the team/be dedicated is far more important in our recruit criteria.

AA requirements aren't even that steep. For example if we open up mage recruiting in Affliction again the general requirements would be around SCM3, SCF3 and Pet Disc and L65. Admittedly thats 36AA minimum but that's not too crazy (although that's a matter of perspective I guess). The basic point is still that gear doesn't faze us. From a flag perspective I don't think we have any requirement beyond POV/POS.
__________________
Zaniel Stormseeker
Affliction
Zaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 07:02 AM   #37
Everclear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 6,910
Well Sreth, don't get too down, if you are a good player and do have the time they require, and all that stands in your way is stats.... just do what they do, EBAY!

Yes, go ahead follow that lead! They can hotbox thier 9 ebayed characters, and being the good player you are, you can just play your newly bought character (providing it is one you know how to play well, of course) , and then everyone will be happy!


P.S. I do not, have not, do not intend to ebay. IMO, being level 65 and 80 AAs sounds really boring, and all that is left to really do is raid. Not to offend others, raiding is tons of fun and all that... just seems like after a point it is just repetitive... just my 2cp.
Everclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 10:28 AM   #38
Zelgadis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,693
Send a message via ICQ to Zelgadis Send a message via AIM to Zelgadis Send a message via MSN to Zelgadis Send a message via Yahoo to Zelgadis
I haven't been able to resist any boss mob's AE attacks in PoP encounters yet with any combinations of my resist levels with resist buffs. O.o So I just fill up on all the HP I can get (well, my normal gear). Otherwise my resists could go up to 300 or 400 with buffs and bard songs going, and I'd still get hit. In fact, the only things I do seem to resist are greenie mob spells.

Not saying anyone here is wrong or anything... but I suppose putting on all the HP I can find is my way of fighting the massive AE DoT and AE DD mobs in PoP. /shudder
__________________
Chamzel's Site
PSN Name - Cham-Zel

Serving one day at a time, for four-to-six years at a time.
Zelgadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 11:57 AM   #39
Tanuden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 81
Send a message via ICQ to Tanuden Send a message via Yahoo to Tanuden
Going to try not to hijack the original thread intent, but I do want to address resist gear.

Chamcham brings up one view... go HP all the way and you don't have to worry about resists. Aamrie states that resist gear is needed for high end PoP, ie. the traditional view. Our guild has this discussion once per quarter roughly, and both discussions center on these two views.

IMHO, resist gear (although much easier to acquire now than it use to be) is still important. If you can't get your unbuffed resist over 100 (this was the Norrath, Kunark, and Velious standard), you need to invest a couple grand in resist items. Even if you have double the amount of HP as someone else in class, if you take damage you will still have to be healed eventually. If you are taking damage due to an AE, something you can mitigate with resist gear (again, on traditional mobs), you are hurting your guild. Someone, somewhere, whether its a cleric or another healers, is going to have to spend mana to fix you up. That mana might have been earmarked for main tank healing, or for someone else in group that is supposed to be taking damage (rampage tank).

A guild that is asking you to get your resists over 100 unbuffed is not being unreasonable. Same with having a click item to counter dispellers. All of this can be acquired for a small expenditure of plat nowadays, and if you want to join the guild badly enough you will take steps to meet the minimum requirements. Guilds that require you to be level 65 with 100 AA want you to be able to actively participate with the guild on encounters. If you are dead in the first 20 seconds because of stuff you can prevent, your not helping that guild on that encounter.

Guild requirements are not "personal" to prevent folks from joining. Instead, they are a means of determining if an applicant can contribute actively to the level of encounters that the guild is currently doing, as well as looking ahead to mobs in the not to distant future. When raids start regularly becoming 50+ member affairs, its gets a bit cumbersome for all those involved. Lag increases and so do misunderstandings. Limiting folks that join is the only way to prevent this from affecting the welfare of the guild.

Sreth, I sincerely hope you are accepted into a guild that meets your expectations as well as (if not better than) EH did. Good luck and good hunting .
__________________
Tanuden Darkwood
Venerable 65 Prophet
Proud Member of Vanguards of Excellence
Honored EQ husband of lady Oriana (ret.) of United Partisan's Service

aka Knosh
50 Beastlord
Tanuden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 01:33 PM   #40
SrethJivUndus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 35
Well I that is my problem then.

I feel that some requirements are just out there against me.

I'm 32 a father of 5 and have a wife that does finally play (alot). I work 12 hours days. I would like to raid and "see" all these high end mobs.

I'm paying my $13.00 a month. I want to get the most for my money as anyone would. I however do not have the luxury of being on the computer 24 7 like students, housewives, mr. moms.....hehe.

Mind you I'm not putting anyone down.

I rather think it's impressive that the majoirty of the people that acutally run our top nothed guilds are kids or young adults (this in cludes most of the officers of a guild not just the leader). I can't or don't want to take the time to look up the stategies on how to kill so and so, or look up how to do this quest, etc. Yet at the same time I'm not asking to be "babysat".

I just as anyone else want to get what is the most for my money. Just like anyone else.

If what I have to do is get levels and "AA's" then I guess that is what I'll have to do. But by the time I make the requirements due to RL. It will close to next year before I can make the "grade" when I do consider myself a descent(sp) player.

The guild also has to be recruiting, which is another tpic in and of itself.

I dunno it seems att catch 22 if you ask me.

Just another 2cp's

Sreth
SrethJivUndus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 09:41 PM   #41
Araya LeBon
Bible=great toilet paper
 
Araya LeBon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: killing sarnaks
Posts: 1,780
Don't worry about getting "uber".

Just worry about playing your class well and finding things to do IG that are fun. They may not fall where you expect them to, but things will into place for you. You'd be amazed at some of the things 3 or 4 friends can accomplish if they learn to work well together over time.
__________________
Huntress Araya Le'Bon
Level 70 Poop Fetisisishist
Araya LeBon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 10:05 PM   #42
Ariakkas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 210
i can't remember who said it, or where, but you need to figure out how much time your willing to put into the game, and accept that, that is all your able to commit, and be content with it.

personally, i put 30+ hours a week into the game i'd bet, sometimes more. it's a hobby to me, not something i do to kill an hour.

yeah, you pay the same 13 bucks everyone else does, but someone else may dedicate 5 times the amount of time, should they not be rewarded more than someone who plays 5 hours a week?

money spent and time spent are two different things.
Ariakkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2003, 10:14 PM   #43
Zelgadis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,693
Send a message via ICQ to Zelgadis Send a message via AIM to Zelgadis Send a message via MSN to Zelgadis Send a message via Yahoo to Zelgadis
Bleh... this isn't going to turn into another one of those "I pay the same amount of money per month as everyone else, why don't I get the same high end gaming experience as everyone in high end guilds? Or why don't they make the game so they all have to suffer in the game like ME??" posts, is it? O.o
__________________
Chamzel's Site
PSN Name - Cham-Zel

Serving one day at a time, for four-to-six years at a time.
Zelgadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 05:03 AM   #44
SrethJivUndus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 35
Yes it is Zel.

So gimme your spot in your guild and I'll stop crying.....lol
SrethJivUndus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 05:15 AM   #45
Zelgadis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,693
Send a message via ICQ to Zelgadis Send a message via AIM to Zelgadis Send a message via MSN to Zelgadis Send a message via Yahoo to Zelgadis
Lots of my friends were all over me asking how they could get in my guild, too, when I got in on trial for Affliction. I'd try getting a bunch of them in with me, but that's not my decision to make.
__________________
Chamzel's Site
PSN Name - Cham-Zel

Serving one day at a time, for four-to-six years at a time.
Zelgadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 05:44 AM   #46
Sarkam Warbringer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 444
Send a message via AIM to Sarkam Warbringer
It's not all a gravy train for people that play alot, Sreth.

Many nights we go through failure after failure after failure to mobs, some of them getting to 20% or lower, some not barely hurting at all. Everyone in the guild has put massive time towards their character and towards the advancement and progression of the guild.

Personally, I have 4 years and 300 days played time on Sarkam, and that's alot of time invested. At minimum wage that would be... ($6.75) $48600 dollars.

If you still think you deserve access to high end planes as much as someone like me plays, think again!

P. S. I do relize the 300 days is sad, but hey, I have fun too!
Sarkam Warbringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 05:46 AM   #47
Zelgadis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,693
Send a message via ICQ to Zelgadis Send a message via AIM to Zelgadis Send a message via MSN to Zelgadis Send a message via Yahoo to Zelgadis
$6.75 is minimum wage? Hmm... something wrong with my job...
__________________
Chamzel's Site
PSN Name - Cham-Zel

Serving one day at a time, for four-to-six years at a time.
Zelgadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 05:53 AM   #48
Zelgadis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,693
Send a message via ICQ to Zelgadis Send a message via AIM to Zelgadis Send a message via MSN to Zelgadis Send a message via Yahoo to Zelgadis
By the way, here's a link to a thread on the Rangers Glade from some guy who was stating his negative feelings towards PoP, as well as a bunch of other rangers who felt like they wasted $40 on the expansion, and how the EQ Devs didn't do so well on PoP for the whole player base.

http://forums.interealms.com/ranger/...threadid=18930
__________________
Chamzel's Site
PSN Name - Cham-Zel

Serving one day at a time, for four-to-six years at a time.
Zelgadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 06:03 AM   #49
Sakkath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,026
how the EQ Devs didn't do so well on PoP for the whole player base
This is part of the problem. PoP was always touted as an expansion for the higher end guilds; those who were getting bored of farming VT and really had nowhere else to progress to. Of course people who weren't in the community bracket bought it anyway, just as SoE wanted them to - enticed by the conveniances of PoK ports and other things. This is similar to LoY, which is touted primarily at the mid-range of players - but I for one will be buying; for the extra bank space if nothing else

On the original point, I think Ana was very accurate.

Good Luck
__________________
Lich Sakkath D'Eath
Divine Grace
Retired
Sakkath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2003, 06:17 AM   #50
SrethJivUndus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 35
Okay your all right.

I need to just suck it up and level and get those sought after AA's.

It just gets frustrating to finally get into a guild that is raiding in zones you have never seen before, and mobs that just plain kick ass, striving to become better and stronger., only to have it fall apart due to internal issues, drama, etc.

You then have to start all over and sell yourself again, become a probie, kiss butt, etc. ( /whispers "Hoping that these suckers let you in their club........hehe"). You all know the drill.

It does get rather nerve wracking, but if I'm not part of a solution, then I'm part of a problem. Guilds require levels and AA, then that is what I must do.

I understand what you all are saying. I'm just whining.......hehe

I'll do what I have too and look ahead to a brighter future.

Thanks for the feedback and letting me ramble though. I love a good conversation.....hehe

Later

Sreth
SrethJivUndus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:12 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.