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Old 02-24-2003, 03:32 PM   #1
Medion Palemoon
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Default Legal repercussions for EQ account hacking?

Ok, let's assume that EQ's fee was $10/month since day 1, and we have now finished 4 years. So if someone played 4 years, with one account, and technically oveyed the EULA (no ebaying, etc.), they'd have spent roughly $480.

Now, suppose after 4 years of playing and accumulating gear, someone hacks the account, and gets rid of the gear.

Does this not constitude as some form of theft? Personally, it's a theft of 4 years of that person's time spent ona hobby. Financially, it's a theft of $480.

Any comments?
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Old 02-24-2003, 03:37 PM   #2
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Court / lawyer costs > $480.

But probably not anyway. The $10 was for entertainment, which you recieved.

Keep in mind that you are talking 2 differnet kinds of law here, criminal and tort. Hacking was a criminal offense which involves no money. Tort would be you taking someone to court to recover loss. 2 totally different things.

Just because you are found guilty of one does not mean you will be found guilty, or responsible, in the other.

Just ask OJ.


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Old 02-25-2003, 08:04 AM   #3
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People playing EQ need to remember one thing.

Their time spent playing EQ is not worth money.

I earn $X an hour at work, but my time is not worth $x an hour, just the hours I spend at work are worth that. The number of hours I can work for $x an hour are limited by the company budget and by my desire to do other things with my life such as play EQ or watch TV. That time I choose to spend in front of a screen is worth squat.

I spend $Y a month on EQ accounts. But that is money spent, not money invested. There is a difference. When you quit EQ, you can sell your char on the black market for a few hundred dollars, but since that violates the EULA, its not completely legal and you can't attach that value to the character in court.

Legally, my toon has no monetary value and honestly I wouldnt want it to. I would hate to be spending my time stressing about increasing the monetary value of my toon. Money = stress. I like the game to stay a game. If my toon became unavailable and unretrievable, oh well. i would be getting that last little nudge I need to move to the next game.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:10 AM   #4
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There are some states you can sue for Punitive damages. California is one of them. Since hacking is a criminal offense and the servers for EQ are located in California, you can sue someone in a california court and seek punitive damages. The amount of punitive damages can easily make the court costs/lawyers fees worth it.

You would be assessing a value to the enjoyment you were unable to achieve solely from having access to you accounts denied. The value of that is specualtive and not related to how much you spend on it. This is the amount you would sue for in punitive damages.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:26 AM   #5
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Yup, it's the punitive damages part that gets you. Actual damages might only be $500 but then you slap on a $50,000 punitive damage and it's suddenly a big deal.

Punitive damages are there to hurt the offender so that they don't get off easy for pulling small crap figuring that nobody would bother with court over it.
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Old 02-25-2003, 08:54 AM   #6
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Also bear in mind that whoever was hacking the account may well not live in a US jurisdiction. I'd imagine it would prove rather interesting to try and get the offender extradited
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Old 02-25-2003, 10:29 AM   #7
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Yeah, Punitive Damages are the way to go. But you aren't going to get shit in punies (slang for PD) for hacking. PD are based upon the net worth of the Defendant, ie. the Hacker, and are usually around 1% of the net worth. Do you really think that anybody that would bother to hack an EQ character has diddly or squat? And it's not that easy to get PD, even for an intentional act like hacking.
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Old 02-26-2003, 10:54 AM   #8
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What about lost computing resources. Technically, when you hack another persons computer without their knowledge/permission, it is theft of resources. Isn't joyriding in someones car technically theft of resources (or is that Grand Theft?)

I am not a lawyer, thank God, but I have always wondered about things like that. Particularly with something like a denial of service attack, where business could grind to a halt due to a hacker.
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Old 02-26-2003, 03:48 PM   #9
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actually ghie an economist has written a survey on the eq economy. he did some calculations based on simple conversions of 1000pp = US$10 (the old exchange rate for ebayed cash) and the average amount of pp a player earns in an hour.

It comes out that norrath as a nation has a higher GDP than a lot of third world countries and it is theoretically possible to maintain aliving wage of EQ selling your plat.

Heck my fiancee can make 1-2000 pp an hour selling kei. if she sold that on ebay, even at reduced margins, thats like 3-5 bucks an hour which is probably more than u get at mcdonalds.

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Old 02-26-2003, 08:21 PM   #10
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shit cops are at my door yo...

said I am in life for prison for doin that shit to baids toon, whatever shall I do
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Old 02-26-2003, 09:31 PM   #11
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You can be a man and release all of your public information to the people of Emarr so you can stand up to everything you've been saying about "I'm so cool, I'm so tough, I'm big, too! Anyone who came up to me to fight me would get turned away bruised and burnt, because that's just what I think will happen!"

Then you can really have police at your door, because then you'd need all the protection you could get.
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Old 02-26-2003, 09:34 PM   #12
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I'd add some comments on his weight, how big he really is, and his penis size (and sex comments as well), but then I realize it might be too disgusting to mention for anyone. =/
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:50 PM   #13
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Currently, the only laws I'm familar with on hacking only gets you in trouble if you hack into a government product (computer/phone/or other electronic device). [US Federal Hacking Laws, Section 1030]

But this could change. In an article I read last year: "...President Bush's cybersecurity team believes that more stringent ethics need to be the rule, rather than the exception. " [CNET 9/2002]

But even if there curently was a law, and you press charges, I get the idea that the hacker here is under the age of 18. And, if it did go to trial, his laywer would take the defense that though he does admit what he did the crime, this makes him a "juvenile offender" and may be adjucated "delinquent", but then are found "not guilty." [Criminal Law Today, 2nd Editon, Frank Schmalleger]

So, the most cost effective way is to deal with him is in game - however you decide to do that.
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Old 03-01-2003, 01:35 AM   #14
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Nope best way to handle a gimp that thinks hes a hacker is to hire a real hacker to ruin his life therefore making him think real hard before fucking with someone. In this day and age if you flip off the guy in the car beside you the end result could be a bullet hole in your head.

Legally there isn't much that can be done if you can retrieve your account. However if you could not retrieve it then they have stolen your ability to play what you are paying for and would therefore be a form of theft.

I still think your better off hiring a hacker to destroy them but thats just me.


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Old 03-01-2003, 02:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Legal repercussions for EQ account hacking?

Originally posted by Medion Palemoon
Ok, let's assume that EQ's fee was $10/month since day 1, and we have now finished 4 years. So if someone played 4 years, with one account, and technically oveyed the EULA (no ebaying, etc.), they'd have spent roughly $480.

Now, suppose after 4 years of playing and accumulating gear, someone hacks the account, and gets rid of the gear.

Does this not constitude as some form of theft? Personally, it's a theft of 4 years of that person's time spent ona hobby. Financially, it's a theft of $480.

Any comments?

No it's not a theft of $480 at all, not in the least. If someone hacked you and you had no access to the account for 4 years yet you were still paying for it then it's a theft. Let me explain one thing, your sword of Ykesha breath of fag ass dragon slaying +1 to haste +21 to I am a ghey loser sword means nothing to the world economy. Thank You.
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Old 03-01-2003, 10:51 AM   #16
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I really don't see how you could build much of a case on this, unless somehow you could tie something more substantial to your claim. For example, if you use a credit card to pay for your account, and someone hacks your account, and changes your information, then uses the account for a substantial, and PROVABLE time... then maybe...you might have a tiny eeeety beety chance of tying in some sort of credit card theft/fraud claim. If you could pull that off, then you might have in interesting case.
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