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Old 02-21-2006, 04:27 AM   #26
Rhendor
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thankfully, after todays patch, the mm's should be completely worthless now so the point is settled, for the better.
(making them worth the xp appropriate for the time put in by the "average" group, so, as we've all seen with SoE this means they'll base it on the 15 min max per mission, so what, 2% aaxp per mm?)

Yes, I hate the gimped fools with lvl 70/300aa with less played time than it takes to type /played. I find them useless, have no skill as a toon or player and I'm glad they're nerfing the xp, so ppl will find real groups again....why the hell play any one class when in mm's (and if that's all you do) you end up playing every class but the one your char is, or a severely limited version of your class at best? Mages who don't know they can heal thier pets, don't know what pet toys are, lvl 70 clerics using npc vendor bought spells, etc. Sickening. If you want to start clueless on what you're playing follow Indywizzy's redundant posts and follow him to Vanguard and start where everyone will be blind sheep who know nothing, learn together, but don't MM up a toon and cause my groups to wipe when you finally decide to leave mm's and enter the real game

have a nice day.
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Old 02-21-2006, 06:16 AM   #27
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The thing that amazes me is that people have the patience to endure the drudgery of the MMs. I tried the fairy mission a couple of times with an alt and I would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do it again.

If someone who had never played EQ actually enjoys the MMs enough to play them over and over then they will most likely NOT enjoy the real game.
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Old 02-21-2006, 06:29 AM   #28
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The thing that amazes me is that people have the patience to endure the drudgery of the MMs. I tried the fairy mission a couple of times with an alt and I would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do it again.
agree there, but it's also part of why ppl do creator instead of Black Wings (sick of beating my head into a wall trying to get a decent Nest group together), why ppl did the BB and EF ldons to death and it was like pulling teeth to get ppl to do nro or sro ones. Too many ppl are scared to loose, at anything, and part of the idiocy of MM's is the lack of xp loss for death....zerg your way thru, die 20 times, and get the same xp for winning if it takes 15 min tops or it takes you an hour. It's mindless, skillless zerging for the most part, takes nothing to accomplish and lets them wave their shiney new level/aa count around to make up for the lack of balls it takes to play that way.
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Old 02-21-2006, 07:06 AM   #29
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Im very happy I started this thread. You guys have made some fantastic points, and while I would be lieing if I said that I agreed with 100% of em, I understand each of them due to the thoughtfulness behind each. Thank you all for sharing your opinions on the matter of MMs Vs. Traditional exp !

Just wanted to say that, for whatever its worth, to whoever reads it. Hasnt been much to read which was thought provoking ( for me anyways ) in this forum as of late. ( The Viiddin thing had potential, but fizzled >< )
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Old 02-21-2006, 07:36 AM   #30
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Definately a lost treasure on that one.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:18 AM   #31
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We can go back to it, its never really too late, and we know he won't be able to resist...
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Old 02-21-2006, 10:35 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rhendor
It's mindless, skillless zerging for the most part, takes nothing to accomplish and lets them wave their shiney new level/aa count around to make up for the lack of balls it takes to play that way.
Ah, the song remains the same. It's just being sung by different condescending asshats.

"OMFGawdzers, we used to have to kill Naggy when we were only level 50! And we used to have to camp to chat to save our buffs! And wear tattered armor and use rusty daggers!"
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:09 PM   #33
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Basically, in that perfect and usually unavoidable situation where you were stuck with one of the following, which one would you bang your head on your keyboard over first ;

Ebayer, MMer, or the elite Multi-boxer.

Essentially, which of those do you find the most/least aggravating? What would you say to those people if you could, provided you gave a damn about their feelings?
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:27 PM   #34
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Ebayer, MMer, or the elite Multi-boxer.

Essentially, which of those do you find the most/least aggravating? What would you say to those people if you could, provided you gave a damn about their feelings?
Most annoying - ebayer
Least annoying - multi-boxer

Ebayer can buy any char they've never played before AND with a community like EQ, the rep of the old char (if there was one) gets in the way often as people are no longer speaking to who they think they are (so frustration on that level as well). At least the other two have played the specific classes.
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Old 02-21-2006, 12:57 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Crystilla
Most annoying - ebayer
Least annoying - multi-boxer

Ebayer can buy any char they've never played before AND with a community like EQ, the rep of the old char (if there was one) gets in the way often as people are no longer speaking to who they think they are (so frustration on that level as well). At least the other two have played the specific classes.
I would NEVER condone anything like that.

/cough
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Old 02-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #36
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Multi boxers all depend on how good they are.

I used to multibox in RSS really well. But i would also replace my alts and friends chars, for actual guildies, and leave my extra chars outside as outside DPS. Also one of my closest friends has 2boxed almost at all times for over 4 years now. I cant imagine him playing without his 2nd char lol.

But multi boxers who think they are good but really arent, are a pain in the ass. They tend to get people killed a lot cause they have their heads up their asses. I would actually say they are worse, and potentially more deadly than an Ebayer.
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Old 02-21-2006, 07:39 PM   #37
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IF someone is good at multiboxing you dont know they are unless they tell you. Most boxers suck some serious penis, Very few of the multiboxers I met that were acceptably played were cause of actual skill. ********** can play a char as good as if not better than most people~.
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:47 PM   #38
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You know, this kind of thing has been rather heavy on my mind when talking to friends who still play EQ.

The whole fast-tracking XP thing is, to me, rather a turn-off.

"In my day", I like to believe that I was accounted as fairly competent in my class. Moreover, in my day, I was a relatively competent hot-boxer. Although I must admit, a decent amount of that was rote memory. The challenge was in remember that I was four-boxing, and the combinations and permutations were near endless. However, once you learn a particular zone and type of encounter, it mainly is rote memory. Attack, count to 10, tash, nuke, blur, heal, slow, nuke, blur heal, blah blah blah blah blah.

But I digress.

I was 56 with some pittance of AA when I stopped playing. Various reasons. Burn-out was one, guild break-up heartache was another. XP frustration was a huge one.

I played hell levels when there were hell levels. My guild did our first raid in Najena when we were all in our teens. We raided Mistmoore, and Lost Temple of Cazic-Thule, and Dalnir, and dungeons which were not uber. Our gear was crap, and teamwork was all, and friendship was even greater than these things combined.

Now, I play EQ2. I enjoy it immensely, actually. Mostly because it's Norrath. I missed Norrath and the wonderment of the Old World and the islands (Kunark and Velious). The nifty dynamic of Heroic Opportunities is fun too, especially since due to game mechanics, two-boxes is all I need in EQ2 to fend for myself if I can't find a group or whatever.

But I digress again. Here's where I was headed with that EQ2 bit...

As a Station subscriber, my EQ1 accounts are active. I pop in every now and again.

It's freakin' lonely.

Once upon a time, I was accounted as fairly competent. I'd be preferred lead puller in Hate over people six levels above me (when I was 54), which I can only attribute to some level of competence on my part, and the fact that I can type fast and make people laugh while I'm trying to split a pull.

Or maybe it's just because the friends I made in-game loved me. I dunno. I'll probably never know the answer to that.

But when I login, and look at my XP and AA bars, and walk around (being a monk, and knowing how to time an FD, I'm not afraid to walk around places I really have no business being, just to see what people are up to), I get horribly depressed.

Why?

Well, for one, there's no one left to play with. My friends are either gone, or impossibly uber.

And I don't really have the heart to do a rote memory XP grind. Nor would it be responsible for me to time sink like that.

And frankly, the idea of trying to fast-track to "useful" level and AA alongside the "exploit the system" fast-track plat-geared players is frankly unappealing.

I camped Raster of frigging Guk for 112 real life hours of my life. Foolish, maybe. But I don't think anyone can say I wasn't dedicated. I went on many pick-up raids, and led several myself, and people seemed to enjoy my events. I never won a haste item. FBSS is still to this day all that I am wearing.

The thought of being thrown into a group (I had this same revulsion when LDoN adventures came about) with no one fun just seemed like a waste.

And so do these "MM"s which you speak of.

$0.02,
Theo
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Old 02-22-2006, 05:38 AM   #39
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taken from a post at goberserker

Well just got done doing a couple HHK MM's since todays patch. Talk about going the other end of the spectrum. There are some good changes in the MMs but did you honestly test the changes yourselves?

1. 6 deaths per group is fine. It makes people pay attention to what they are doing.

2. Making weapons usable again is fine also., however did you even bother to see what the damage output of is now. 6 of us beating on a blue gobbie at lvl 30 should not take 4 minutes to kill. You need to up the damage some imo.

3. Failing a mission is okay but when you dont receive a lick of xp for anything killed, that is plain retarded.

4. Prisoners are now attacking us when we release them, and they dont run all way out now either. They go on seek and destroy missions for gobbies.

Seriously, spice these missions up some. Make the warriors get some random magical weapon appropriate for that lvl like a Polished Granite Tomahawk. Do the same for clerics. Make the clerics viable healers instead of having to use a group buff to heal the group. Change the rewards so they is more variety. Let there be a reason for going into other areas of the zone instead of to straight to hail, kill and release prisoners.

You have basically made the HHK MM stupid and unplayable now. I dont mind a challenge but I am not going to waste a half hour of my time when not even a smidge of xp is given if we fail......
so...score one for SoE...they were due to actaully do SOMETHING right, finally, after all these years. Now if only Freeport didn't look so fucking retarded and didn't have all the shamans not grouping cuz they're trying like hell to recapture some alchemy recepies :P
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Old 02-22-2006, 06:58 AM   #40
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This is another one of those posts where everyone convinces themselves that EQ takes skill to play.

1) Good connection
2) Good PC
3) Little Internet research
4) Few questions asked in-game
5) One to two weeks of heads-down play
6) Ability to hold your pee, eat at the KB, and not get distracted by cyberz.
7) Decent gear / decent AA's

And voila! You have an uber player, regardless of how they got to 70

I don't see the "skill" involved. EQ is all about investing time (leveling up) or money (buying a toon).
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Old 02-22-2006, 08:59 AM   #41
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The "requires no skill" argument has been done to death over and over.

So briefly, consider this. Six people systematically clearing an area with dense packed mobs versus 36 people just attacking whatever they see. Think old school Plane of Hate or something.

If you don't believe that the six people systematically clearing a way to south wall camp don't have "skill", then perhaps we should say instead that "better than average pool of common sense" seems to serve the job.

I think you overestimate the average joe's brain capacity to say that rote memory alone makes a better player. If it ain't "skill", then maybe it's "common sense".

Which as we know, ain't so common.
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:29 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Yoor
6) Ability to hold your pee, eat at the KB, and not get distracted by cyberz.
Bah...large empty bottle beside ya when ya start your play session.
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Man that just rolls off the tongue nicely.

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I know, you're in Ottawa, Davek. Still, I can't help but /poke you.
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:34 AM   #43
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That works for you gents but not for us ladies.

You have gotten better at holding (236).
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Old 02-22-2006, 10:56 AM   #44
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:25 AM   #45
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Re-railed...

Multi-Boxers... Most folks suck at this... I could never multi-box well so I won't even try again...

But a good multi-boxer can be amazing... (Cilinyn is a great example of an amazing multi-boxer: him 5-boxing a creator mission with just me assisting on my necro was a real trip) The thing I notice is that people get so focused on how to multi- that when they just play one character they tend to get ahead of themselves and make a LOT of mistakes (not putting Cil into that group since I have always been impressed with his play regardless of how many toons he has on. I also realize that there are some others in the same category so don't take this to mean YOU.)
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:39 AM   #46
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Neither E-bayers or Multi-Boxers annoy me too much as long as they know what they're doing. If i get into a group with someone that is boxing or someone who purchased their account via E-bay i'll usually stick around as long as they do a good job, but if they keep making mistakes over and over i'll just leave them to go do my own thing. Quite honestly, i've met more people who leveled up in a few weeks with MM's and PL-ing who knew less than the people who were boxing or playing a purchased character.

To the "EQ doesn't take skill to play" argument....this is true only if you do the bare minimum of your class. Sure, it's easy and requires no skill if, for instance, you're a DPS class and just attack, or a healing class and just heal. IMO, however, it does require skill to pick up "slack" from other people in your group, to do this you need to know your class pretty well...as well as the other classes in your group AND the skill of the people who are playing them. I've been in some groups where all i had to do was assist and turn on auto attack, but then again i've been in some groups where i've had to pull, OT, heal, and CC. But, maybe it's just me...maybe i just play my ranger different than other people play theirs. Maybe i just make things more difficult than i should, but it keeps the game interesting.

Once again, just my 2cp.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:10 AM   #47
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I've found that most people who think doing their job in-game requires no skill are either lazy and mediocre players or embittered retirees who feel compelled to shit on the game whenever possible to continually justify to themselves why they left EQ.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:18 AM   #48
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remember the good old days when people mostly bitched about twinks?
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Man that just rolls off the tongue nicely.

Originally Posted by Karthanon View Post
I know, you're in Ottawa, Davek. Still, I can't help but /poke you.
Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
And you wonder why I don't play nice with you? You leave my man buttons alone.. Those are Davek's.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:59 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I've found that most people who think doing their job in-game requires no skill are either lazy and mediocre players or embittered retirees who feel compelled to shit on the game whenever possible to continually justify to themselves why they left EQ.
/agree...and that's better than I woulda' said it

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Old 02-24-2006, 11:09 AM   #50
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Another "hear hear" for Horm...
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