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Old 08-20-2009, 05:25 AM   #51
Wildane
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Ahhh! spellin nazisim! You're teh aw3s0m3!
And you are the sad, defeated deflector, again.
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:40 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
And you are the sad, defeated deflector, again.
Yes yes, you w0n teh intrawebz!

This must also fill the hole in your sad existence, sheep.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:07 AM   #53
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It's a shame you can't take your medicine like a man, but I'll play along. Hey, next time you're blowing your gun, do us all a favor and swallow!
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:52 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
It's a shame you can't take your medicine like a man, but I'll play along. Hey, next time you're blowing your gun, do us all a favor and swallow!
What medicine? The sad sad fact that you're a scarred little man who hates God? The fact that you're an idiot who thinks the police's job is to protect you? The fact that you're an internet toughguy? The fact that you're still equating guns and cocks? The fact that you are, and always will be, a government dependent little sheeple?

Or the fact that you're still trying to win the internet?

You're sad, boy. I really pity you.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:16 AM   #55
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Burns doesn't it, when a scared, God-hating sheep with penis envy, proves that you don't know what you're talking about? There are realy only two ways to deal with this. You could be a man and admit when you're wrong, or you could ignore reason, cover your eyes and ears, and pretend it didn't happen. You took the predictable path. Now please, continue with your overused and unimaginative insults. I will allow it.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:17 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Burns doesn't it, when a scared, God-hating sheep with penis envy, proves that you don't know what you're talking about?
When's THAT going to happen?

Nice to see you're finally admitting you're a scared, God-hating sheep with penis envy though! Maybe now you can come to grips with your glaring inadequacies.

Where am I wrong? You haven't done anything except confirm everything I've said about you.

Oh, I mistyped a word. You're right. I was wrong!

There. Now you've been vindicated, grammar nazi! Feel better?

Heh... You'll allow.

You won't allow anything. Your government masters will tell you what you'll do, and you'll bleat away happily, thinking you're a man somehow.

Tell us again how tough you are that you don't need a gun to protect yourself! That's some funny shit!
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:57 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Drysdale
Where am I wrong?
You're so-called "evidence" that states that police aren't there to (serve and) protect. You saw a headline that gave you what you wanted and obviously didn't take a close look at the case.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
Heh... You'll allow.

You won't allow anything. Your government masters will tell you what you'll do, and you'll bleat away happily, thinking you're a man somehow.

Tell us again how tough you are that you don't need a gun to protect yourself! That's some funny shit!
Doesn't take much to jerk your chain, does it?

Do you honestly think that repeating the same thing over and over and over is getting anywhere? Am I supposed to suddenly care if you think I'm a sheep? Hey, keep saying it if it makes you feel better, but when you question the manhood of another person, you might want to think about acting like a man yourself. How old are you again?
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:29 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
As oppposed to a manchild from Bwastin who can't even decipher the intent of the founding fathers when it's laid out right before them? I love how you can be so dense AND supercilious in parallel!
What particular intent are you referring to? Remember, dullard, I'm on board with the whole right to bear arms deal. I just think you're a whacko for playing the God is on our side card. It's both unnecessary and intellectually lazy. In that light, I shouldn't be surprised it's coming from you.

Then you answered your own question here. Good job!
No, I answered your question. I'm still waiting for you to answer my question. You're too busy trying to win teh intrawebzorz to understand the difference.

Oh, so God has to use primitive people's words to describe a gun before self-defense is a God-given right?
Ah, so I'm just supposed to take your word for it on what God wants? And you think I'm being unreasonable?

I think I was being generous calling you a manchild.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:00 AM   #59
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There is only ONE way to decipher what God wants...... you kicked that to the curb so there is no "GOD" as far as you are concerned except the one you made up in your own head, that being said I guess to each there own.

As far as guns are concerned I don't think God would care if each of us had a nuclear bomb in our back yard if we could actually have it responsibly, but human race as a whole have proven that we cant even have sex responsibly much less own weaponry of any sort. (im pro gun Drys just saying...... most people do not have a clue how to handle them responsibly and that is sad because it is really simple).
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:12 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
You're so-called "evidence" that states that police aren't there to (serve and) protect. You saw a headline that gave you what you wanted and obviously didn't take a close look at the case.Doesn't take much to jerk your chain, does it?
And I put in a 2nd link that reaffirms my statement.

Do you honestly think that repeating the same thing over and over and over is getting anywhere? Am I supposed to suddenly care if you think I'm a sheep? Hey, keep saying it if it makes you feel better, but when you question the manhood of another person, you might want to think about acting like a man yourself. How old are you again?
Oh look, "How old are you?" Nice. Now you're parroting me. Sweet. I must be your hero. No surprise there.

How many times are you going to lie to yourself that you AREN'T a sheep? How many times are you going to lie to yourself that you DON'T have penis/gun issues? Keep it up, It's funny to see you tap dance around and pretend you're some kind of adult here, when all you really want is a mommy to take care of you from cradle to grave.
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Last edited by Drysdale; 08-21-2009 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:23 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
What particular intent are you referring to? Remember, dullard, I'm on board with the whole right to bear arms deal. I just think you're a whacko for playing the God is on our side card. It's both unnecessary and intellectually lazy. In that light, I shouldn't be surprised it's coming from you.
The intent of the founders to exercise.... drum roll for the ignorant here... their God-given rights.

Ever read the Declaration of Independence?

Ever hear of God-Given rights being espoused by the founding fathers? Ever hear of "Natural rights" (Here's a hint: They're the same thing, prettied up for you athe... oh, excuse me, Agnostics so that you don't get your panties in a bunch over someone saying the word "God".

God-Given rights are a basic tenent of the philosophy of the founding fathers. Sorry that it's distasteful to you, but you can't pretend that they aren't and still be honest with yourself.

No, I answered your question.
Which answered your own question nicely.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question. You're too busy trying to win teh intrawebzorz to understand the difference. Ah, so I'm just supposed to take your word for it on what God wants? And you think I'm being unreasonable?
What do you care about what God wants? He's a ficticious superhero to you.



I think I was being generous calling you a manchild.
Hell, from you that's a compliment. You're not even up to manchild status... You're still pretending that your stunted worldview derived from a useless state in a failing part of the country has some sort of validity.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:58 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Ever hear of God-Given rights being espoused by the founding fathers? Ever hear of "Natural rights" (Here's a hint: They're the same thing, prettied up for you athe... oh, excuse me, Agnostics so that you don't get your panties in a bunch over someone saying the word "God".
Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was really frightened of being attacked by atheists/agnostics, so he hid his intensely Christian religious beliefs behind a careful charade.
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Old 08-21-2009, 08:39 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
The intent of the founders to exercise.... drum roll for the ignorant here... their God-given rights.

Ever read the Declaration of Independence?

Ever hear of God-Given rights being espoused by the founding fathers? Ever hear of "Natural rights" (Here's a hint: They're the same thing, prettied up for you athe... oh, excuse me, Agnostics so that you don't get your panties in a bunch over someone saying the word "God".

God-Given rights are a basic tenent of the philosophy of the founding fathers. Sorry that it's distasteful to you, but you can't pretend that they aren't and still be honest with yourself.
I'm glad your contrarianism has led you to fall in with the America-as-theocracy nonsense. You really do love dry humping the fringe. I'm well aware of the presence of the word God in the Declaration. But my legal right to bear arms is provided not by God, but by a piece of paper on which this country was founded. Cool beans, that. And if, God forbid (haha!) that piece of paper becomes rendered impotent through world events, we'll have to exercise our natural/God-given rights as we see them.

Which answered your own question nicely.
No, it did not. I'll just assume you're too juvenile to do so though and move on.

What do you care about what God wants? He's a ficticious superhero to you.
I wouldn't call God fictitious or a superhero. Thanks for playing though. Personally I don't really pretend to know what God wants. He has yet to communicate with me explicitly. I expect he'd generally prefer we not be douchebags (oh how you've failed him), but that's just a hunch. Beyond that I expect he doesn't generally give a crap. Then again, how would I know? Moreover, how would *you* know?

Hell, from you that's a compliment. You're not even up to manchild status... You're still pretending that your stunted worldview derived from a useless state in a failing part of the country has some sort of validity.
Easy there, cable-twister, let's not pretend your success and my success have anything to do with our relative geographical economies. Also, while you're so worried about the rights this country provides, let's remember what areas of the country did the lion's share of the work to assert those rights. Hint: it wasn't Texas, compadre. I'd argue we owe more to Virginia and Massachusetts than any states in terms of lasting impacts. Stunted worldview indeed. Then again, what would we expect from the US version of Quebec, /shrug.
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Old 08-21-2009, 08:46 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Drysdale
And I put in a 2nd link that reaffirms my statement.
Yeah, your second link doesn't reaffirm shit. Unless they repealed the 14th amendment and I somehow missed it, you still don't know what you're talking about.
Originally Posted by the United States Constitution
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
Oh look, "How old are you?" Nice. Now you're parroting me. Sweet. I must be your hero. No surprise there.
As I just read your edited post to find your second link, I'm afraid you'll have to live with the fact that you are not my hero, as I did not parrot you.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
How many times are you going to lie to yourself that you AREN'T a sheep? How many times are you going to lie to yourself that you DON'T have penis/gun issues?
How many times are you going to repeat the same untruths?
Originally Posted by Drysdale
It's funny to see you tap dance around and pretend you're some kind of adult here, when all you really want is a mommy to take care of you from cradle to grave.
This coming from a guy who can't protect himself without his precious guns and is afraid of signs.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
God-Given rights are a basic tenent of the philosophy of the founding fathers.
So, the founding fathers had some kind of inside track info as to the existence of God? Yes, they believed their rights were given to them by the Creator; doesn't make it true.
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:21 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
And if, God forbid (haha!) that piece of paper becomes rendered impotent through world events, we'll have to exercise our natural/God-given rights as we see them.

Beyond that I expect he doesn't generally give a crap. Then again, how would I know? Moreover, how would *you* know?
If you don't know what rights God has given you—alternately, what rights "nature" has endowed you with—then which rights are you going to exercise if the "piece of paper [is] rendered impotent"? I am really interested in your view on this point. Perhaps you don't really believe there is such a thing as "natural rights" and instead you take an instrumentalist view that "rights" are social devices and their usefulness determines their truth?
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:32 AM   #66
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History question: What God-given rights did a black woman have in, say, South Carolina in 1789? Who had the authority/responsibility to protect/enforce those rights?
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:46 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Yeah, your second link doesn't reaffirm shit. Unless they repealed the 14th amendment and I somehow missed it, you still don't know what you're talking about.As I just read your edited post to find your second link, I'm afraid you'll have to live with the fact that you are not my hero, as I did not parrot you.How many times are you going to repeat the same untruths?This coming from a guy who can't protect himself without his precious guns and is afraid of signs.So, the founding fathers had some kind of inside track info as to the existence of God? Yes, they believed their rights were given to them by the Creator; doesn't make it true.
http://gunowners.org/sk0503.htm
The trial judges correctly dismissed both complaints. In a carefully reasoned Memorandum Opinion, Judge Hannon based his decision in No. 79-6 on "the fundamental principle that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." See p. 4, infra. The duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists. Holding that no special relationship existed between the police and appellants in No. 79-6, Judge Hannon concluded that no specific legal duty existed. We hold that Judge Hannon was correct and adopt the relevant portions of his opinion. Those portions appear in the following Appendix.[fn1]
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=1
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.
(more at link)

Tell me again how it's their job, tard.
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:47 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell View Post
History question: What God-given rights did a black woman have in, say, South Carolina in 1789? Who had the authority/responsibility to protect/enforce those rights?
Rights can be abridged by force. That's obvious. That's also why I'm so in favor of people carrying guns.
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:48 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
No, it did not. I'll just assume you're too juvenile to do so though and move on.
Sure it did. If you aren't smart enough to understand the implications, that's on you.

I wouldn't call God fictitious or a superhero. Thanks for playing though. Personally I don't really pretend to know what God wants. He has yet to communicate with me explicitly.

So he has to talk to you explicitly? You should change your handle to Hubris.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:13 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell View Post
History question: What God-given rights did a black woman have in, say, South Carolina in 1789? Who had the authority/responsibility to protect/enforce those rights?
She had the same rights God gave to a white woman living in South Carolina today. Because rights aren't recognized or even exercised, doesn't entail God hasn't given those rights, or alternately—for those who shrink back from "God talk"—that nature hasn't endowed us with those rights. In response to your second question I believe the answer is, individuals had (and today have) the authority and responsibility to protect and enforce those rights.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:51 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Tell me again how it's their job, tard.
The duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large
Key word: individuals. I never suggested that the police be personal bodyguards, but they have a duty to protect citizens from criminals. As the police can't be everywhere at all times, they shouldn't be held legally responsible for crimes that are commited against innocent civilians. Duh.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=1
Uh, you realize you've tried this once already, right?

I'd really like to hear from one of our resident police officers on this subject. I expect they know their duty better than either of us.
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Because rights aren't recognized or even exercised, doesn't entail God hasn't given those rights, or alternately—for those who shrink back from "God talk"—that nature hasn't endowed us with those rights.
Of course, it's more plausible to say that, since a black woman wasn't recognized as a first class citizen in 1789, she didn't qualify for the rights provided by the government.

If the founding fathers truly believed that rights were God-given, why would they have owned slaves? Why would they take away the rights of people to whom God Himself had provided?
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Old 08-21-2009, 11:04 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Of course, it's more plausible to say that, since a black woman wasn't recognized as a first class citizen in 1789, she didn't qualify for the rights provided by the government.
The black woman's rights given to her by God were not afforded to her through government; government failed her. She had those rights and, the hypothetical "black woman" in this case, spent years fighting for them. Edit: I should say, she spent years fighting for the recognition of her rights.

Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
If the founding fathers truly believed that rights were God-given, why would they have owned slaves? Why would they take away the rights of people to whom God Himself had provided?
Perhaps because those they owned as property were not thought to be fully persons? (Because they weren't "persons" they would not have been given rights by God.) I would have to do some digging around to find out for sure, but I believe that was one of the reasons given.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Key word: individuals. I never suggested that the police be personal bodyguards, but they have a duty to protect citizens from criminals. As the police can't be everywhere at all times, they shouldn't be held legally responsible for crimes that are commited against innocent civilians. Duh.Uh, you realize you've tried this once already, right?
So again, why do you have a problem with someone carrying a gun at a public event?

You've just painted yourself into a corner, tard.

I'd really like to hear from one of our resident police officers on this subject. I expect they know their duty better than either of us.Of course, it's more plausible to say that, since a black woman wasn't recognized as a first class citizen in 1789, she didn't qualify for the rights provided by the government.
Fail at civics 101. Luri explained it rather nicely. This is why I call you a sheep, among other reasons. You just don't understand civics.

If the founding fathers truly believed that rights were God-given, why would they have owned slaves? Why would they take away the rights of people to whom God Himself had provided?
Because they weren't perfect? Because they had the choice of dropping the slavery issue, or never getting the support of the slave states? Because they were living within the system when they started?

We inherited a slave-state that had been around since the early 1500s. Slavery had been an institution since time began, as well. We became a nation in 1776, and got rid of slavery by the 1860s. You do the math.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:08 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen View Post
The black woman's rights given to her by God were not afforded to her through government; government failed her. She had those rights and, the hypothetical "black woman" in this case, spent years fighting for them. Edit: I should say, she spent years fighting for the recognition of her rights.



Perhaps because those they owned as property were not thought to be fully persons? (Because they weren't "persons" they would not have been given rights by God.) I would have to do some digging around to find out for sure, but I believe that was one of the reasons given.
Robert E Lee put it well:
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...%20Slavery.htm
Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:
I was much pleased the with President's message. His views of the systematic and progressive efforts of certain people at the North to interfere with and change the domestic institutions of the South are truthfully and faithfully expressed. The consequences of their plans and purposes are also clearly set forth. These people must be aware that their object is both unlawful and foreign to them and to their duty, and that this institution, for which they are irresponsible and non-accountable, can only be changed by them through the agency of a civil and servile war. There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Savior have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master; that, although he may not approve the mode by which Providence accomplishes its purpose, the results will be the same; and that the reason he gives for interference in matters he has no concern with, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbor, -still, I fear he will persevere in his evil course. . . . Is it not strange that the descendants of those Pilgrim Fathers who crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual liberty of others
Positively enlightened for a southern man of his day. But the black people in America were thought of as children at best, and sub human at worst.
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-Robert A. Heinlein

"Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:02 PM   #75
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That is an amazing quote of Lee.
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