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Old 08-18-2009, 08:17 AM   #1
Drysdale
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Default Exercising your 2A Rights

Heh! Awesome!

But it wasn't an assault rifle. It was merely a semiautomatic AR-15.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/...ml#cnnSTCVideo
PHOENIX, Arizona (CNN) -- A man toting an assault rifle was among a dozen protesters carrying weapons while demonstrating outside President Obama's speech to veterans on Monday, but no laws were broken. It was the second instance in recent days in which weapons have been seen near presidential events.
Video from CNN affiliate KNXV shows the man standing with other protesters, with the rifle slung over his right shoulder, a handgun in a holster on his left hip and a bullet clip in his back pocket.
"I'm exercising my rights as an American in Arizona," the man, who refused to give his name, told KNXV.
Phoenix police said authorities monitored about a dozen people carrying weapons while peacefully demonstrating.
"It was a group interested in exercising the right to bear arms," police spokesman Sgt. Andy Hill said.
Arizona law has nothing in the books regulating assault rifles, and only requires permits for carrying concealed weapons. So despite the man's proximity to the president, there were no charges or arrests to be made. Hill said officers explained the law to some people who were upset about the presence of weapons at the protest. Obama was speaking.
"We pay attention to this obviously ... to someone with a firearm when they open carry even when they are within state law," Donovan said. "We work with our law enforcement counterparts to make sure laws and regulations in their states are enforced."
There's also video at the link.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:58 AM   #2
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So, firearms are OK, but signs aren't? You'll forgive me if I don't see the difference between exercising one's 2nd Amendment right and exercising one's 1st Amendment right.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:08 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
So, firearms are OK, but signs aren't? You'll forgive me if I don't see the difference between exercising one's 2nd Amendment right and exercising one's 1st Amendment right.
Death threats aren't covered by the 1st Amendment anymore than screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater is. The sign guy from the other thread did the equivalent of if the gun guy in the picture attached to this story was waving the gun around in a crowd and pretending that's part of his 2nd Amendment rights.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
Death threats aren't covered by the 1st Amendment anymore than screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater is. The sign guy from the other thread did the equivalent of if the gun guy in the picture attached to this story was waving the gun around in a crowd and pretending that's part of his 2nd Amendment rights.
Exactly, and seeing as how the gun was slung over his back...
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:24 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Death threats aren't covered by the 1st Amendment anymore than screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater is.
Wishing someone dead isn't the same as threatening their life.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:00 PM   #6
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Inciting murder also qualifies as a death threat when it is done in a public setting.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:24 PM   #7
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Geez, as if the Secret Service folks don't have enough stress in their life. Although I suppose when they see the guy with the rifle slung over his back, they know it will be easier to spot him trying anything compared to the handgun hidden under the jacket.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Wishing someone dead isn't the same as threatening their life.
If you were at your job and someone showed up outside with a sign that said "DEATH TO WILDANE," you wouldn't feel threatened? I'd certainly be threatened if it were me.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
If you were at your job and someone showed up outside with a sign that said "DEATH TO WILDANE," you wouldn't feel threatened? I'd certainly be threatened if it were me.
Why would a Death to Wildane sign scare you?
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:04 PM   #10
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A sign that says death to anybody is about as threatening to me as a baby with a water pistol, but I guess if you want censorship then enjoy your big government Drys. as far as the guns who cares, walk around with them if you dont shoot anyone or anything then you arent breaking any laws.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
A sign that says death to anybody is about as threatening to me as a baby with a water pistol, but I guess if you want censorship then enjoy your big government Drys. as far as the guns who cares, walk around with them if you dont shoot anyone or anything then you arent breaking any laws.
But if you're holding a sign that says "Death to the Pres" you ARE breaking laws. Get it?

Your feelings are immaterial. It doesn't matter what you feel about this. And to call it censorship is just plain silly. Your right to swing your fist ends before you get to my nose.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:15 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
If you were at your job and someone showed up outside with a sign that said "DEATH TO WILDANE," you wouldn't feel threatened?
Not really, but then that probably has more to do with my level of apathy these days than anything else. I'd probably go find out why he wants me dead.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:16 PM   #13
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WHY? it dont say I am going to kill the president...... walking around a town hall meeting with rifles in protest is a fucking implied threat if I have ever seen one....... Im not against it though, just keep an eye on them and if one of them starts to point a rifle ........ put him to sleep.

Oh and why is it illegal to write that about a Democrat president and not illegal to write it about a Republican one?
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
But if you're holding a sign that says "Death to the Pres" you ARE breaking laws. Get it?
Only if said sign can be construed as a viable threat. Again, wishing for something and threatening something, are different things. I'm no lawyer, but that message doesn't prove intent, only sentiment.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
Your right to swing your fist ends before you get to my nose.
So, you have a right not to read anything you don't like, now? That's like Jews getting offended by Christmas trees at Christmas.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:27 PM   #15
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I'm actually OK with letting people have guns, although I DO think it's not unreasonable to require a permit. Even if it's just to make sure they know how to use the damn thing. The ability to write a check does not qualify as understanding basic safety. Not to mention: I'm OK with cops having an excuse to check. It's simple "You got a permit?" "yeah" "cool."

As for carrying one around the President...you lost me on that one. We know people want to kill him. They do. Do I have knowledge of any credible specific threat? No. But you and I both know: there are people who want him dead and would be willing to die themselves to see it happen. Honest people should be allowed to own guns. I've always been with you on that, but maybe it's OK to have em clear off when the President is walking by.



From a political standpoint: this guy is a fucking retard. He just did more damage to his cause than Obama ever has. It wasn't on the table. It wasn't the topic of the town hall. The law currently supports him. Making it an issue at that time only forces it onto the table, at a time when the numbers aren't in his favor and adds, as a bonus, plenty of fodder for liberals to point at the weird people who just want to have guns everywhere (or as they will now sell it: here's a picture of a guy who wants to make sure criminals and pedophiles will be allowed to have guns around your children, think of the children, without needing a permit). If I was an anti gun lobbyist I'd be paying the ugliest, scariest people I could find to do this at every town hall in the country.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:42 PM   #16
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I'm surprised no one's brought up the legal definition of assault & such. In the end, if the cops/SS view the sign as an actionable threat or such, they'll pull the person in, and the judge/jury can decide if it was actually assault (probably not, but if they find the person has been sending death threats, or has attempted or committed violence in the past, etc - well, they're getting themselves into trouble).
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by AjTaliesen View Post
As for carrying one around the President...you lost me on that one.
How far around is around? (Seriously)

The guy wasn't where O was speaking, he was outside, and the SS determined that he wasn't a threat.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
WHY? it dont say I am going to kill the president...... walking around a town hall meeting with rifles in protest is a fucking implied threat if I have ever seen one.......
How is that a threat? You get skeered by people with rifles? I don't.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
How far around is around? (Seriously)

The guy wasn't where O was speaking, he was outside, and the SS determined that he wasn't a threat.
It's a good question. I don't have a good answer other than to say, go with what SS thinks. As they were OK with it, then the guy is good.

At the same time: had the Secret service (I've become childishly uncomfortable calling them SS) asked him to move across the street, or to the next block, I probably would be OK with that as well. Although Personally I'd deputize him and make him run alongside the limo...but I imagine most of the treasury dpt. doesn't share my sense of humor.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
How is that a threat? You get skeered by people with rifles? I don't.
But you are afraid of a sign?

and Im not afraid of anyone with anything, Im around guns everyday they dont bother me a bit but when is the last time a man was beat to death with a sign and when is the last time someone was murdered with a gun?
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
If you were at your job and someone showed up outside with a sign that said "DEATH TO WILDANE," you wouldn't feel threatened? I'd certainly be threatened if it were me.
It would scare me if there wasn't a rez incoming.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:36 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
But you are afraid of a sign?
No, I'm afraid of the nutjob holding the sign. Or at the very least, I feel threatened by someone calling for my death. You have no idea how far that nutjob is going to take his little quest. And I'm around guns on a daily basis as well, I just don't hang around nutjobs.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
You have no idea how far that nutjob is going to take his little quest.
And you also have no idea of the intentions of the guy with two guns w/ extra ammo. I know you just love your fellow gun nuts, but you have to admit, that's pretty fucking unusual. I mean, arming yourself before doing to the town hall meeting where the president is going to be? Even you have to admit that isn't exactly your average, every day, ordinary Joe. Stop stroking your guns and think logically for a minute.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
And you also have no idea of the intentions of the guy with two guns w/ extra ammo. I know you just love your fellow gun nuts, but you have to admit, that's pretty fucking unusual.
Not really. But nice try. Sorry if the big bad guns skeered you!

One is a threat, the other is a god given right. If you wet your pants at the sight of rights being exercised, I suggest you take a good look at yourself.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Drysdale
Not really.
Oh, so you often see people with rifles at town halls and rallies and such? Bullshit.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
Sorry if the big bad guns skeered you!
It has nothing to do with being scared. If you think I am scared of guns, then you have to admit to being scared of signs.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
One is a threat, the other is a god given right.
If there really is a God, I can say with 99% certainty that he doesn't give a flying fuck over whether or not you can own a gun, so you can just stop with all the "god given right" bullshit right there. Guns are not sacred.
Originally Posted by Drysdale
If you wet your pants at the sight of rights being exercised, I suggest you take a good look at yourself.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with guns. I don't have a problem with people owning guns. I don't even have a problem with people carrying guns. What I do have a problem with, however, are gun nuts. People who don't really give a fuck about anyone else's rights, just as long as they can have their guns. People who have bumper stickers that say "You can take my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers." People like you. It's obsessive behavior and really makes you your own worst enemy. I'm willing to bet there wouldn't be as much talk about gun legislation if you don't have nutjobs like this basically getting in your face, screaming "I'M EXERCISING MY RIGHTS!!" The more you overtly obsess over your metal dicks, the more people are going to question your behavior, and rightly so.

Keep your guns, I don't care. Just shut the fuck up about it already.
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