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Old 08-12-2005, 01:08 PM   #1
chukzombi
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Default This is Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4145110.stm
Iraqi Kurdistan a world away from war
By Caroline Hawley
BBC News, Baghdad



Iraqi Kurds are feeling the benefits of the post-Saddam Hussein era
Fly into Arbil, the regional capital of Iraqi Kurdistan, and you feel that you have arrived in another country.
It is the Kurdish, not the Iraqi, flag that flutters from Arbil International Airport, Kurdistan's new, glass-fronted "gateway" to the world, which saw its first flights from Dubai, Beirut and Amman arrive last month.

The airport was built on a former military base once used by Saddam Hussein's regime to bomb the Kurds of Halabja.

Now it brings in investors. Businessmen, scared away from other parts of Iraq, are coming to Kurdistan instead, and helping its economy to take off.

"Before all we saw was war, and planes bombing our cities and villages," says the airport manager, Kameran Murad, who fought against the regime in the late 1980s.

"Now the aircraft are our link with the outside world. Everything is changing."

Economic success

Take the town of Suleimaniya. Its skyline is dotted with cranes. Everywhere you look bulldozers are at work.

We can go where we like when we like, which is not possible in Baghdad or elsewhere in Iraq.

Wolfgang Kohler

"Things are booming. The price of land is ridiculous. It's just going up and up and up," says businessman Bettin Saleh, who has two shops in a new mall.

"People have money, people are spending it, they feel it's safe to spend - and build for the future."

And there's no shortage of labour, as Arab Iraqis head north to join the Kurdish workforce.

"I'm here because it's dangerous where I'm from and there are no jobs," says Aziz Abed Ali, from Baghdad. "Here it is safe and there is work."

Unique stability

The Kurds have ruled themselves in northern Iraq since the aftermath of the Gulf war of 1991, when a "safe haven" was created to protect them from Saddam Hussein.

Rival Kurdish groups fought one another in 1996, but the current stability in Kurdistan now stands in stark contrast to other parts of the country.

In the lobby of the Sheraton hotel in Arbil - the smartest hotel in the entire country - there are plans on display for a grand project called "Dreamland," epitomising the hope and confidence of Kurdistan.

Western businessmen hover around the internet centre.


Kurdish Alliance came second in 2005's landmark poll
KDP and PUK formed backbone of grouping
Alliance won 25% of the vote


2005: Hungry to vote in Iraqi Kurdistan
"Here we are free - we can do our jobs," says Wolfgang Kohler, who is part of a German delegation selling farm implements in Kurdistan. "We can go where we like when we like, which is not possible in Baghdad or elsewhere in Iraq."

Every Friday, Kurdish families head out to enjoy the rugged natural beauty of Kurdistan, to picnic by its rivers and waterfalls. The biggest threat to them is landmines - a legacy of a past they are trying to forget.

'We are Kurds'

For the future, the greatest hope of many Kurds is, eventually, to secede from Iraq.

"I feel Kurdish more than Iraqi," says Azad Nouri Abdullah, a pharmacist from Suleimaniya. "In my heart I want my own country - for the Kurds."

And that is not just the dream of an older generation, bitter at how imperial Britain drew boundaries in the Middle East.

"We are Kurds," says nine-year old Sardar Mohammed Ali, swimming with a group of friends in the serenity of Lake Dokan, near Suleimaniya. "We should have our own country like everyone else."
But but but i thought Iraq was full of splodeydopes and rubble becuase of the Bushitlerchimpysmirkyshrubbyhaliburton war for oil????!
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:18 PM   #2
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For the future, the greatest hope of many Kurds is, eventually, to secede from Iraq.
Is this a problem? I honestly don't know, or is this part of the plan? lol, whatever the case I hope Iraq does prosper. It has been fertalized with American blood, it better grow strong and not betray us.
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:24 PM   #3
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The Turks dont want this to happen, and THAT is a problem.
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Old 08-12-2005, 02:03 PM   #4
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And Turkey is an ally. Are they part of NATO?
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Old 08-12-2005, 03:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Martigan
And Turkey is an ally. Are they part of NATO?
Yep
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:10 PM   #6
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screw turkey
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:12 PM   #7
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That is a pragmatic answer, but it would show all our allies that we would sell them out for the sake of expedience. Not a good message to send.
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:42 PM   #8
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That is a pragmatic answer, but it would show all our allies that we would sell them out for the sake of expedience. Not a good message to send.
Under Bush that message has already been signed, sealed and delivered.
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:54 PM   #9
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actually my opinion is biased against turkey, i remember the bottle neck they caused in port when they turned 4th id around.
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Vireil
Under Bush that message has already been signed, sealed and delivered.
You have it reversed. The UN and NATO don't give two shits about helping us.
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:59 PM   #11
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Max, you arent thinking moonbat dimensionally, Bush controls the world but he is controlled by Haliburton, arab oil, amaerican oil, big business Dick Cheney and Tony Blair
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:00 PM   #12
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You have it reversed. The UN and NATO don't give two shits about helping us.
ummm... okay, whatever you say...
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by solicia
actually my opinion is biased against turkey, i remember the bottle neck they caused in port when they turned 4th id around.
Turkey is a sovereign state. It had the right to do that. Like it or not.
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by chukzombi
Max, you arent thinking moonbat dimensionally, Bush controls the world but he is controlled by Haliburton, arab oil, amaerican oil, big business Dick Cheney and Tony Blair
No I think Bush is controlled by the allmighty dollar that he worships.
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by chukzombi
Max, you arent thinking moonbat dimensionally, Bush controls the world but he is controlled by Haliburton, arab oil, amaerican oil, big business Dick Cheney and Tony Blair
Hehe I think your right.
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Old 08-12-2005, 06:36 PM   #16
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NATO is no longer relevant. When France, Germany et al. decided not to help with Iraq, the alliance was dissolved. It exists on paper only. Trying to persuade the Turks not to get uppity about the Kurds because they are part of NATO will be futile.
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Old 08-13-2005, 03:33 AM   #17
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i never said they couldnt do it, i just said i remember the bottle neck.
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Old 08-13-2005, 04:33 AM   #18
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"screw turkey" is great american pie type joke material though
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Old 08-13-2005, 04:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by aganitte
NATO is no longer relevant. When France, Germany et al. decided not to help with Iraq, the alliance was dissolved. It exists on paper only. Trying to persuade the Turks not to get uppity about the Kurds because they are part of NATO will be futile.
And that is how we repay Turkey for 60 years of loyal service to the alliance.
We dump them into a civil war.

Oh yes that will make a GREAT impression upon the world.
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Old 08-13-2005, 05:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by aganitte
NATO is no longer relevant. When France, Germany et al. decided not to help with Iraq, the alliance was dissolved. It exists on paper only. Trying to persuade the Turks not to get uppity about the Kurds because they are part of NATO will be futile.
here's another version:

NATO is no longer relevant. When the usa decided to not listen to the other's countries advices and tried to cheat them with crappy elements and tried to pressure them with economical threatening in order to force them to go help (and share the costs in money and lives(notice the order)) in iraq, the alliance was dissolved. It exist on paper only, at least for the usa, hopefully it's still in use around the world.
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Old 08-13-2005, 12:59 PM   #21
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You EVIL GREEDY AMERICANS!!!!!!!

Arka bud your pretty good at finding information why don't you do a few posts on how much money in aid the United States has given for various causes over the last 20 years and compare it to say ohhhhhhhhh France?

You are going to bring up the same ol embargo arguements that you say killed millions, Ill say the same ol thing to, the United States dont owe any country anything as far as feeding its people anyway and if the countries under embargo are doing something we dont like it IS our right not to do business with them. (if a man gets drunk in one bar and goes to another bar and starts raising hell you boot his ass out you dont HAVE to serve him).


Im not trying to start some pissing match with you again either, you claim you arent anti American thats fine and dandy, try say something good about the United States just once then.(I dont agree with the government all the time either btw but Ill assume that you are smart enough to not agree with your government all the time as well).
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Old 08-13-2005, 02:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Axgar
You EVIL GREEDY AMERICANS!!!!!!!

Arka bud your pretty good at finding information why don't you do a few posts on how much money in aid the United States has given for various causes over the last 20 years and compare it to say ohhhhhhhhh France?

You are going to bring up the same ol embargo arguements that you say killed millions, Ill say the same ol thing to, the United States dont owe any country anything as far as feeding its people anyway and if the countries under embargo are doing something we dont like it IS our right not to do business with them. (if a man gets drunk in one bar and goes to another bar and starts raising hell you boot his ass out you dont HAVE to serve him).


Im not trying to start some pissing match with you again either, you claim you arent anti American thats fine and dandy, try say something good about the United States just once then.(I dont agree with the government all the time either btw but Ill assume that you are smart enough to not agree with your government all the time as well).
can you tell me what the crap you typed above have to do with what i wrote please ?
here's a simple version for you: aganitte typed that nato is no more because france, germany and all didn't wanted to help the usa in iraq. It's a very very very partial view of the reality, since the usa lied to them with a bald face in order to make them follow in iraq in what they knew what will be a very expensive war.
It have nothing to do with hoooooow much the usa have given for various causes, it have to do with false proof, falsified reports, pictures from out of order satellite and most of all: credibility. Once they saw nobody will buy their lies (hello powell), they threatened for economic retaliation (oil, and the famous and funny freedom fries campaign, and the common stuff (taxes on imported products, for exemple)).
The usa tried to cheat, they missed, lost credibility on a world scale, lost their allies (you know, the ones that were at your side (and still are) in afghanistan, except of course doggy blair, the others are willing to retire their troops as soon as possible (spain and italia for exemple)), are stuck in an expensive in money and lives war that still waits for a justification. And the right wing "medias" are trying to find whatever they can to find this justification: wmd, link between OSL (oooh, still free) and SH, iraq responsability in the 9/11 etc etc. Of course, none of those are flying, except if you blindly accept what they want to tell you. On a personnal side, i will be more than suspicious when i watch/read media that legally won the right to lie to everyone (i talk about all the murdoc group: fox etc etc). How do you know if a news is true if they are allowed to lie without any retaliation and ethical control ? How can someone can put any credit in these crappy info sources when they have been caught the pants down lieing so many times ?
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Old 08-13-2005, 03:22 PM   #23
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the press never lets the truth get in the way of a good story.
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Old 08-13-2005, 06:52 PM   #24
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It's a very very very partial view of the reality, since the usa lied to them with a bald face in order to make them follow in iraq in what they knew what will be a very expensive war.
The US didn't lie to them. Just wondering what makes you think they did?
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Old 08-14-2005, 12:20 AM   #25
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So your saying Arka in so many words that what we do to help people is none of your concern but our governmental view on what is protecting our country is your business?

You are also saying that even if we help every country in the world at some time or another that because we have an embargo on countries who will not stop doing some things that we disagree with we are murderers? (we meaning our government)

IF a man live across the street Arka and you know that if you give him money to feed his 5 starving kids and his wife (whom he beats daily) he is going to go out and buy beer and whiskey instead of food then get drunk and beat his wife again do you give him the money and hope? do you try give him food hope? or do you walk over there grab the scumbag by the throat kick the shit out of him (all the while other people are gonna think you should mind your own business) and make sure it dont happen again?

I know a guy should call the cops but the sad truth is the women and children will be just like the Iraqi citizens were, they will be afraid of what will happen WHEN the man is let out of jail and how bad the next beating will be so even though if I put myself in your shoes I can see what your arguement is but I have to kick your shoes off in a hurry and go put on some shitkickers because its NEVER ok to stand by and watch this behavior even if you put your own life in danger.
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