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Old 01-13-2005, 06:07 PM   #1
Heretic
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Default Divorce

http://www.newschannel5.com/content/news/8867.asp

Theyre proposing a bill that would make divorces harder to get.

In Tennessee, more than half of all first time marriages end in divorce. Right now in Tennessee you can get a divorce after waiting 90 days if you have children. You can get one after sixty days if you have no children.

The basic building block of our society is our families and I don't think anybody disagrees that our families are disintegrating, said State Senator Jim Bryson.

State Senator Jim Bryson of Franklin wants to bring covenant marriage to Tennessee. He's introducing a bill that would allow couples an option to choose a covenant marriage.

The bill says if a couple agrees to a covenant marriage they must be legally separated for one year before they can divorce. With children, they must wait a year and a half.

They would also agree to marriage counseling before they marry. There are exceptions on the divorce, though, such as if someone can prove adultery or abuse.

This is not new. Some states already have covenant marriages and critics say the divorce rates in those states are not much lower.

This is just one of many new bills lawmakers are putting forward. It's proof that lawmakers are back in town. Senator Bryson says it could pass this year.
If they are worried about divorce rates, wouldn't it make more sense to make marriages harder to get? At least it is an option and not mandatory.

I don't understand this really. If a couple finds out that marriage doesn't work for them, you are supposed to punish them further?
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:46 PM   #2
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I don't know. To some people getting married is just another step in a relationship, not a serious commitment of any kind. They figure that, just like previously in the relationship, they can break up as though it's not a big deal after they are married. The current laws tend to make it easy to do so.

With good reason. Shit happens, and there isn't any good reason that married couples should be forced to stay together if they genuinely cannot. If a couple doesn't have kids, then it's not a tough issue at all. The only people who have to go through a big mess are the ones getting the divorce.

Kids make the situation a whole lot tougher. You can argue that it's important for kids to have two parents, and not get a whole lot of complaint from anyone. Single parents aren't bad, they just aren't as preferable as two parents in an ideal situation.

On the other hand, if the parents do not get along, is it really healthy for them to be around the kids?

Bottom line is, you can't force people to be happy. You can't force them to stay together if it makes them unhappy. People have to work it out for themselves, and not let a court decide what to do without a serious look at each individual case. A law would completely ignore the unique circumstances of every divorce case.


My wildly-left-wing suggestion: remove "marraige" altogether. Leave that to the churches. In its place create a similar process which consists of signing a legally binding contract to remain married. Breaking that contract before a certain period of time has passed results in some sort of fine, perhaps with a necessary grace period before either of the couple can be "married" again, or receive "marraige" benefits again. In exchange for signing that contract, you get all the medical/legal/financial benefits married couples currently enjoy or might be granted in the future. Along with this, institute Common Law Divorce. If a couple lives separately for a certain amount of time, their marraige contract is considered null and void. Exceptions can be granted to those working in the military, or in other lines of government work which might necessitate that kind of separation, or for serious medical conditions requiring long-term hospitalization.

None of this requires, or is affected in any way, by a church-sanctioned marraige, except that maybe you can get the process done in some fancy church ceremony instead of in a courtroom, if you so desired. I know how big some people are on "tradition" and frankly, that doesn't hurt anyone.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:19 PM   #3
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We don't have time to worry about preserving marriages, you fools, we're too busy making sure the gays can't do it.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:45 PM   #4
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:35 PM   #5
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Oh, right, forgot about that.

So how 'bout those gays?
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Old 01-14-2005, 03:09 AM   #6
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I rather like AresProphet's idea there. <shrug> Dunno why, since it doesn't affect me at all since I'm already married, have been so for 10 years (11 next may), and unlikely to divorce anytime this lifetime. Course, he could die I suppose... <shudder> nasty thought there.

Great, now I'm sad and have to go cuddle and annoy my poor sleeping husband. I'll be sure to tell him what put that icky thought into my defenseless little brain. 8P
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Old 01-14-2005, 05:12 AM   #7
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Let people marry and divorce as they wish. The Government has no reason to meddle in personal affairs. Manage the government, not the people under it. Such fools.
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:00 AM   #8
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Oak, you couldn't have said it better IMHO. Marriage is a sacred bond between two people. Spiritually, they are joined together as one. That is rather personal, and the government does not need to started getting involved with that.

People don't always know each other as well as they think they do when they first get married, regardless of how long they have known the other person. Also, people change, and become someone else, metaphorically speaking ie. 'he/she is not the person I married 'x' number of years ago'. Those people who find out they do not want to be married and would like a divorce or annulment should have the right to chose to do so, and not have to wait. If the times given for waiting are to see if it will work out, well, if the people want to work it out, they will or they won't, regardless of a time frame. I know people who got divorced, then decided to try and work it out, and got married again, happier then they were before.

I suppose this could be catagoized with the separation of church and state...the government shouldn't tell people when they can and can't get a divorce.
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:35 AM   #9
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In a society where everything has become disposable on a whim and we've placed so much importance on "ME ME ME", is it any surprise that we'd come to find other human beings or relationships disposable, too?

Duh?
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:12 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Aresprophet
remove "marraige" altogether. Leave that to the churches. In its place create a similar process which consists of signing a legally binding contract
I agree. We should remove the term "marriage" from the government institution and just have a civil union in its place for all the current benefits. If you want a "marriage" you have to go to a church. This lets whoever wants to (gays, athiests, etc.) to become "joined" by law without having to pass the religious test. If you think about it, government "marriage" is a violation of the separation of church and state.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:49 AM   #11
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Government marriage is defined much differently than church marriage is. Check your state law and you will see that it is defined as a civil contract. Your local church will likely define it as a spiritual or holy bond. There's not much violation of church and state separation going on with that as far as it stands now.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:49 AM   #12
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand I feel that the Government has no business making marriage or divorce harder, but the other part of me says "ok, when enough people can't be responsible for themselves and the govt starts picking up the tab, something needs to be done. Kinda like seatbelt laws and helmet laws. When enough people don't wear seatbelts or helmets and wind up disabled for life, the Government picks up the tab in the form of SSI Disability. They had to step in and make laws.

Maybe instead of granting instant divorces, there should be a rule in place that couples wanting a divorce have to go thru 3 months of marriage counseling first.

I don't know what a good answer to this is.
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:57 AM   #13
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I've always seen the engagement practically as being committed already, and the marriage itself to satisfy the family and friends.
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:17 AM   #14
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Heh, I pretty much think the same way. I mean, we always knew we'd get around to getting married one day but really, we had better things to blow money and time on.

Eventually my husband decided (for some reason) that he wanted to join the armed services (that lasted... not very long... turns out he can't force himself to take orders from someone of inferior intelligence. In his case, thats about 90% of the human race (my opinion, not his). Especially if the orders don't make any sense, such as folding a shirt into a precise mathematical square. so that kinda cut that short heh. Fortunately, I rarely need to give orders... well, unless you count "harder, faster!" as an order anyways...) anyways, we basically got married to satisfy the US Govt... basically, he didn't want me to have to work but they wouldn't let him send me his paycheck unless we had a cute little piece of paper saying "yes, they really ARE married. Honest. I saw it! Signed, some judge/history teacher in colorado".

Anyways, point of that is... our relationship would have been just as "formalized" by a civil contract that didn't mention the word marriage. Can't imagine we're the only couple like that either.

Either way, we'd still be "married" so to speak, so I don't really see what difference the word makes. Course, I don't see how two guys calling themselves husband and husband, husband and wife, partners, spouses, etc etc etc ad nauseum can possibly "diminish" what we have either, but I've been told repeatedly that it would.

<shrug>

<crawls off to bed to play "the raising of the titanic" for a couple hours before sleep>
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by all I read
unless you count "harder, faster!" as an order anyways
yowza!
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:38 AM   #16
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<crawls off to bed to play "the raising of the titanic" for a couple hours before sleep>
Oooohhh... do explain.. we want details. Are you going to climb his mizzenmast and see why his roger is so jolly?
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Kulani
Especially if the orders don't make any sense, such as folding a shirt into a precise mathematical square.
This is how they train soldiers to pay attention to detail. Just fyi even though it seems like they are just toying with soldiers.

Many soldiers get married prior to deploying or such. This drastically increases the amount of money one makes while serving on active duty.

I still say the government should leave this one alone.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:46 AM   #18
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..:: Quoting all I read ::..
unless you count "harder, faster!" as an order anyways
..:: End Quote ::..


Originally Posted by Hormadrune
yowza!
Clearly you were in the wrong guild, Horm.
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Old 01-14-2005, 11:28 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by FanonFaythunder
..:: Quoting all I read ::..
unless you count "harder, faster!" as an order anyways
..:: End Quote ::..




Clearly you were in the wrong guild, Horm.
I loved my guilds, but I do have occasional nightmares about sitting in a group during VT clearings with Monglier and Aronir discussing anime porn for 6 hours. /shudder
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Old 01-16-2005, 04:51 PM   #20
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It is a shame that the government want's to stick it's nose, and spend tax dollars on such a personal issue.

What I find a shame is that so many people start a commitment and then run away, whether marriage, a job, college, etc... Where is the sense of responsibility to give it all you got? I admit I am divorced, but having a cheating wife for 10 years got old, so I do know there are reasons for divorce. But I have had many friends who got divorced after a year or two and when I asked why, they just said, "Oh, I just got tired of her" or "He works too much", etc..... So there are reasons to get a divorce, and I believe that right should not be infringed upon by the government. BUT, I would also like to see people, on a personal level, give more effort to whatever endeavor they attempt before giving up. I was told I should have left my first wife after two years, but I stayed for 12, trying my hardest to make it work, to the point of her getting pregnant by one of my best friends, and interviewing couples to adopt a child my wife was carrying that was not mine. AND having another child with her after that, my nine year old daughter. The reason I say this is to encourage everyone to persevere, especially when the going gets tough. Sometimes that "vein of gold" is just a foot deeper into the mine shaft, but the hardest rock is in the way. Our pastor gave the story today of a guy who sold his mine in 1856 for $700.00 and in the next ten years, $300,000,000 worth of silver was pulled from that mine. Just a little more effort, a little patience and perseverance can yield GREAT rewards.
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Old 01-17-2005, 05:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Inmountains
I was told I should have left my first wife after two years, but I stayed for 12, trying my hardest to make it work
I know multiple people in RL with similar situations. They stay/stayed with cheating, mean, abusive spouses just because they hope it will get better. This is one of the reasons I don't like marriage. It imposes barriers to leaving someone who it isn't working with. A lot of people would rather coast through a bad marriage than go thru a messy divorce. Also if I hear, "I'm staying with them for the child/children" one more time, I'm gonna puke.


Just a little more effort, a little patience and perseverance can yield GREAT rewards.
I don't see how you can advocate that after what you described you went through.
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Old 01-17-2005, 01:47 PM   #22
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I was referring to those that "bail out" after six months because the newness wore off. Perseverance does not ALWAYS give great rewards, but bailing out guarantees no rewards. Everyone needs to know when "enough is enough" but it is just sad to see people give up at the first sign of trouble.
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Old 01-17-2005, 09:39 PM   #23
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Well, I guess I agree in that respect.
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