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Old 01-21-2005, 07:35 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Heretic
Brigiid, the reason for having the abortion in the vast majority of cases is not for fear of retaliation from mom or dad. The reason for not telling the parents is. These are two separate things.
Explain your logic here, please.

Getting pregnant presents any number of problems, ie: "I can't raise a kid." or "I can't afford a kid." or "I'm a kid, I can't do this." or "I'm gonna get fat." I understand that. So go to Mom and Dad and say, "Hey, I'm pregnant. I'm considering an abortion." and get it handled that way.

I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying that making your decision for abortion (for whatever reason), and doing it at a time and place where your parents can't find out about it seems like sneaking around to avoid getting in trouble with Mom and Dad.

We're saying the same thing here.

Originally Posted by Heretic
As for you saying more than a teacher needs to be brought in, it is my understanding that the school has no involvement in the act other than allowing her to skip school to go.
As Kiebler (I think) said on the 1st page of this thread, when you send your kid off to school, you expect that they're going to be at school, doing the whole "education" thing, and be kept in a relatively safe environment. If they are to leave the campus for any reason, I expect to be notified.

I don't expect that the school is going to ask my permission to take my kid to the zoo, then allow them to venture off of school property unattended to have a part of their body surgically removed. It's not the school's place to say where and when I should have involvement in my kid's life. If my kid suffers a life threatening injury or illness during school time, by all means, feel free to help out. Otherwise, let it be dealt with by me.

It's their job to educate my kid and keep them safe while they're in the school's custody, and leave the parenting to the parents.
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:38 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Heretic
Thats where I strongly disagree.
Why do you feel so strongly that teenagers are not responsible/accountable to their parents?
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Old 01-21-2005, 07:43 AM   #103
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I understand everyones frustrations about not knowing where their child will be. What you don't realize is the confidentiality part will only be used by those who feel they need it. A very small amount. The vast majority of children will tell their parents. So, if you want to be the parent that the child tells, let them know they can come to you without retaliation.
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"i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit."

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Old 01-21-2005, 07:56 AM   #104
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Heretic, just because a parent might get angry is not reason enough to not inform the parent that the child is undergoing a medical proceedure.

Seriously, if this is the case, why not just pass a law that says to the effect: "When a child is in school custody during school hours, the child's parents rights are revoked until the child returns home".

I mean, whats next.. power of attorney?
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1st Corinthians 2:14)
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Old 01-21-2005, 08:11 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Rheaton
The minor's parents are ultimately responsible for the well-being of the minor. That is the top of the chain...the parents. Not the state and not the minor.. but the parents. Let me give you an example as to why.

Lets say that Horny_Minor_01 and family just moved from Florida, where they have lived their entire lives, to Calipornya. The minor has a thin blood issue that was discovered when the minor was say 5 years old. It has never been a problem for the child since, but is a on-going medical situation with the minor. Since it was never a problem since the minor was 5 years old at the time of the discovery, the minor is none the wiser of the matter. And honestly, since it hasnt ever surfaced into any other problem, the parents never told the minor.

There are no medical records of this in Ca. The minor hasnt even been to a doctor in Ca. since they moved there. Since the minor is hiding this abortion from her parents, they are never notified and records and doctors are never looked at or talked to.

The minor goes into the abortion clinic, gets an abortion and bleeds to death. Who's responsible? The state? The school? The clinic? The minor? the parents? No one?

This is just one example of how the parents, having been notified, could have prevented her death. Outside of the extreme such as death there could be a host of problems with the minor's health that no one knows about but the parents. Reactions to certain meds. Physical conditions. The clinics, I'd bet, do not do full physicals, blood tests, history, etc. Besides, even if they tried to look it up on the "computer", there are hundreds of thousands of medical files still on paper.

On every school enrollment form there is a section for known medical problems. The parents neglected to write it down..knowing the school's / state's policy.

Outside of that senerio, the minor's parents are solely responsible for the well-being of the minor while she is pregnant. Meaning that if they neglect her, thus causing harm to the minor or the minor's baby, the parents are responsible.
this is the other side of the argument to a tee.

on the one hand, we have those saying that there are some families in which going home and attempting to talk to the parents about something like this would result in the child getting the living hell beat out of them, possibly miscarrying the child as a result, and/or dying themselves.

this is argued against using the 'it's a one in a million chance' arguments.

but then that same argument is used to oppose the law as evidenced by your example here.

the parents neglected to properly care for their kid (in my opinion) by not following through on 1) educating their child about their health issues...and i just in general disagree that a "bleeder" wouldn't know they were a bleeder since EVERY little thing that happens to them that involves blood necessitates a hospital visit to stop it (some exaggeration, obviously, but i have had experience with them, it's pretty scary)...and 2) not informing the school of the child's medical condition. the specific condition you used as an example would cause a higher degree of awareness in terms of when an emergency has actually occurred as opposed to a child who is not a bleeder. failure to provide that information to the school is at least bordering on endangerment.

considering that's just an example, your point is not lost. however, it is only as valid as you would allow the prior argument to be valid by using the rare occurences to be the center of a position.

while the school does not inform the parent of the visit, i'm sure the girl is encouraged at EVERY turn to talk to her parents. by the school counselor, the medical counselor, the doctor, the nurses, etc...

i understand this law is supposed to protect those cases where it is dangerous for a young girl to take it up with her parents, regardless of how rare it is. i wonder though that it will really be as helpful as they think in making it mandatory.

i know a (now) woman who was pregnant at 14. she discussed it with her parents and ..after the initial anger and disappointment...they compromised on adoption (she wanted to keep it, they wanted her to abort it). when she came back later and said she didn't think she could go through with it, that she wanted to keep her baby, things changed. her father, while a reasonable man when sober, was an alcoholic. he would get drunk and tell her about how in his family if a father didn't want a daughter to have a child, they would just tie her up and beat her until she miscarried, and that would be the end of it. she was fortunate he was never drunk enough to do it himself, and she fled her home everytime he would start drinking from fear alone. the stress alone could have ended the pregnancy in this scenario.

so even when a girl thinks it is safe to discuss this stuff with her parents, it might not the law is flawed either way from that perspective. not even the daughter can know what her parents might be capable of in some cases.

however, i think ares is right in general. this law is just a formality to protect rights granted in other laws. no way around that.
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:54 PM   #106
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Why are you people still flapping your gums about abortions. This has nothing to do with abortions. Abortion is a red herring to guilt undecideds into shutting up and giving away even more control of their childrens upbringing.
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