Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > NON EQ Stuff (Real life, other games, etc.) > Steam Vent


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2004, 06:12 PM   #1
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Default Optimism and national pride

With the death of Ronald Reagan we have been hearing over the airwaves a word and a phrase repeatedly associated with Mr. Reagan: 'optimism' and 'national pride'.

There is no doubt that Reagan emobodied both. What I find difficult is the Republican pundits attempting to ride the wave of Reagan's death in order to paint themselves as the "party of Reagan", the party that brought hope and national pride to America, as one commentator put it on the radio today.

Is optimism and national pride the trademarks of any single political party? I think not.

I think optimism represents the general hopefulness that good will and does prevail over evil in the world.

Long before a Ronald Reagan there were staunch supporters of liberalism who led Americans to believe in hope and believe in America: Woodrow Wilson led Americans out of isolationism and planted us firmly into the world community after WWI demonstrating hope that we could prevail as a world community over evil. Franklin D. Roosevelt brought hope to an America that had sunk in a world depression, lifting us out of our poverty. He too, like Wilson, picked up the guantlet and provided a vision of hope to America during a world war. John F. Kennedy lifted our hopes that we could and would prevail over the Soviet Empire and that communism would eventually collapse.

Optimism is not the trademark of conservative politics by no stretch of the imagination.

We can also see from the above that national pride is certainly not the domain of the conservatives. Why even bother to defend and rebuild a country when one doesn't have pride in the institutions of their own country?

Yes, Reagan did much to bolster the hope and national pride of Americans after the recession, but such hope and pride has always been present. We can thank Reagan for cheering us on during a hard time for our country. However, it would be sheer propoganda to claim that it is any single party that carries the flags of hope and national pride for the country.

As Americans we carry hope in our hearts that evil loses at the end of the day. We are all proud of our country, warts and all. We shouldn't give into this nonsense that one party represents such a sentiment better than another. It ain't true.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 05:31 AM   #2
Wildane
Psychopath w/a conscience
 
Wildane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Hospitality State, asshole!
Posts: 10,540
I find it hard to believe that either party bears those sentiments. Call me cynical, but the way things are going nowadays, I just don't see anyone in Washington acting altruistically. It's all about a contest of one-upmanship (sp?) and playing the blame game. We spend more of our resources trying to find out what happened than we do trying to prevent it from happening again.

Bleh, I'm just in a sour mood this morning, but it just feels like the greater good has become secondary nowadays.
__________________
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
Wildane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 05:59 AM   #3
Hormadrune
Sociopathic bully?
 
Hormadrune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 11,895
Reagan had it far easier than GWB honestly. Soviet Communism was a huge, easily identifiable enemy. Militant Islam is a faceless, shadowy network.

Oh, and altruism is a myth.
__________________
WoW-Ghostlands-US: Prae | sp | Prolonix | Horm | Ulfhednar | l
EQ: Hormadrune <Retired> <OFS> <CoI> <Affy> <CE>
Hormadrune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 07:22 AM   #4
LairdRagna
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 1,308
Agreed Horm. During the Cold War there was the daily threat of complete destruction. Today there is a possible threat that somewhere a bomb might go off and kill hundreds, maybe thousands... but not the complete destruction of life as we know it. If you live outside of one of the big cities you might even believe it is somebody else's problem to worry about, they would never come to East Crotchrot to blow up a movie theatre... they would do that in NY or LA. During the Cold War, everywhere was a target by and large... the major cities, the military bases outside the cities, the missile silos near the cornfields of Nebraska. It was a common fear and concern we all shared. Today it is an ever present fear, but it is in the shadows and murkey and we think how terrible, but it won't happen to me. The truth is, the world is a more dangerous place today than it was under Reagan because for all its fear, the Cold War was a stabilizing influence. We had to find peaceful resolution to problems, because the only other option would have led to unilateral destruction.
LairdRagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 07:34 AM   #5
Everclear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 6,910
I think both parties symbolize these ideals.. in their own ways. Personally, I derive my optimism and national pride from the Supreme Court. As a mechanism to uphold the nation's "values" I am constantly in awe of the court. I think I would be more starstruck seeing Ginsberg or any of the Justices than I would any movie star. I am sure many people have had problems with th American court systms, but they are what have inspired me to what I consider my life's calling, and what have made me proud to be an American. The American concept of justice, is to me the underlying hope in many bad situations.
Everclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 08:10 AM   #6
Flub Man
Here's to you liberals!!!
 
Flub Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Geaux Tigers
Posts: 3,327
Lur, it's no differant the when the Dem's try to pass themselves off as the party of the little guy.

Political Parties have always tried to define themselves on way or the other. Reagan, because of the lackluster/stagnant 70's, was able to define himself as the optimist. Which, by most accounts he was.
__________________
Dirty Ol' Flub <retired>
My Sports Blog

"Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park."
~ Skip Bertman

'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.'
~bumble
Flub Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 09:14 AM   #7
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Flub Man
Lur, it's no differant the when the Dem's try to pass themselves off as the party of the little guy.
Well, actually it is different. The Democrats stand on salient issues that affect the working class of America: issues surrounding social services, labor unions, infrastructure, jobs creation, and health care.

What issues have the Reublicans taken a stand on? Cutting taxes, military services, and outsourcing. Right?

Cutting taxes are important to everyone (as long as spending is cut at the same time), but that is hardly at the top of the list of concerns for a blue collar worker.

Hence, the Democrats do come across as being the party for the "little guy" based upon real issues they take on.

"Optimism" and "National Pride" aren't salient political issues. See the difference?
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 09:34 AM   #8
Flub Man
Here's to you liberals!!!
 
Flub Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Geaux Tigers
Posts: 3,327
Yeah, because Republicans are against creating job, want to destroy unions and infrastructure. And taking from one person and giving it to another is such a great idea.
__________________
Dirty Ol' Flub <retired>
My Sports Blog

"Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park."
~ Skip Bertman

'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.'
~bumble
Flub Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 09:43 AM   #9
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Flub, jobs creation is not a salient issue for Republicans. Yes, they want to see more jobs, but that isn't at the top of their list. Right?

What salient issues do you see Republicans standing on this election?
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 09:50 AM   #10
Flub Man
Here's to you liberals!!!
 
Flub Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Geaux Tigers
Posts: 3,327
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Flub, jobs creation is not a salient issue for Republicans. Yes, they want to see more jobs, but that isn't at the top of their list. Right?
It isn't? Did you get super secret memo from the RNC that was put out to business owners demanding they not hire anymore people?

Originally Posted by Lurikeen
What salient issues do you see Republicans standing on this election?
1) The Economy, that would include jobs
2) National Security
3) Energy

Now, what salient issues is Kerry running on? Besides I'm not Bush.
__________________
Dirty Ol' Flub <retired>
My Sports Blog

"Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park."
~ Skip Bertman

'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.'
~bumble
Flub Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 10:07 AM   #11
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
Now, what salient issues is Kerry running on? Besides I'm not Bush.
Awesome Flub..that is one of the single best summaries of John "F'in" Kerry I have ever heard. Truer words were never spoken.
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 10:41 AM   #12
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Flub Man

1) The Economy, that would include jobs
2) National Security
3) Energy

Now, what salient issues is Kerry running on? Besides I'm not Bush.
The Newsweek poll, found here , is what I am getting at Flub.

When it comes to economy and jobs more Democrats think that should be a bigger priority for Congress and the President than Republicans. In other words, the issue of jobs is notably more significant to Democrats (58%) than Republicans (24%). So, while job creation is an issue, it isn't a salient issue for Republicans.

That is where Democrats can be identified with "sticking up for the little guy", for instance. However, this is far removed from the intent of my original posting at the top of this thread. Republicans don't own optimism and national pride.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 10:57 AM   #13
Flub Man
Here's to you liberals!!!
 
Flub Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Geaux Tigers
Posts: 3,327
I don't read polls.

And yes, they do. Reagan proved that. Kerry is proving it by running as the 'I'm not Bush' candidate.

Now, what salient issues is Kerry running on?
__________________
Dirty Ol' Flub <retired>
My Sports Blog

"Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park."
~ Skip Bertman

'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.'
~bumble
Flub Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 11:14 AM   #14
Hormadrune
Sociopathic bully?
 
Hormadrune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 11,895
National Defense
Jobs
Education

Just because you repugs refuse to read any of his substantive literature detailing his priority issue stances doesn't mean the info isn't there. But you're far too content to close your eyes to it all and insist that he's running a purely Bush-Bashing campaign.
__________________
WoW-Ghostlands-US: Prae | sp | Prolonix | Horm | Ulfhednar | l
EQ: Hormadrune <Retired> <OFS> <CoI> <Affy> <CE>
Hormadrune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 11:15 AM   #15
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Flub Man
Now, what salient issues is Kerry running on?
Flub, if you haven't guessed it by now, let me make it clear. I didn't start this thread to bash either presidential candidate. If you want to go that direction than start your own thread.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 11:20 AM   #16
Hormadrune
Sociopathic bully?
 
Hormadrune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 11,895
Cut Flub some slack Lurikeen, the right works from a limited playbook remember
__________________
WoW-Ghostlands-US: Prae | sp | Prolonix | Horm | Ulfhednar | l
EQ: Hormadrune <Retired> <OFS> <CoI> <Affy> <CE>
Hormadrune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 11:23 AM   #17
Flub Man
Here's to you liberals!!!
 
Flub Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Geaux Tigers
Posts: 3,327
It's the one I got, read stole, from my liberal friend. Not shocked you recognized it.
__________________
Dirty Ol' Flub <retired>
My Sports Blog

"Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park."
~ Skip Bertman

'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.'
~bumble
Flub Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2004, 11:34 AM   #18
Hormadrune
Sociopathic bully?
 
Hormadrune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 11,895
Yep, theft is in your playbook too. Tricky Dick taught us this years before I first drew breath
__________________
WoW-Ghostlands-US: Prae | sp | Prolonix | Horm | Ulfhednar | l
EQ: Hormadrune <Retired> <OFS> <CoI> <Affy> <CE>
Hormadrune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 12:09 AM   #19
K1SSK1nG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 353
well, Flub...i think "i'm not bush" is the only issue Kerry needs to win the election am i rite?

Seriously though...damnit, i was listening to the radio the other day...forgot who the hell said it, but regardless...its a pretty damned nice quote.

"when your house is on fire, you don't think about renovations. You think about putting the fire out."

1.) The only positives Bush has caused in his term are fixing problems he caused. the national debt it so terrible now, that the average american's estimated share is now 24k...it started at 5k at the beginning of his term.

2.) Champagne Division, anyone?

3.) all time record holder for most corporate campaign donations?

4.) the Thanksgiving trip? staged at 6am with troops that were screened based on political affiliation, and a prop turkey $$

5.) 1 billion dollars a week to invade and control two countries

6.) Jr. caused a 521 billion dollar deficit...less than four years after inheriting a 200 billion dollar surplus.

7.) Choked on a fucking pretzel, appointed an infamous segregationist on martin luther king day as a federal judge, dropped his dog on his head, and hasn't attended a SINGLE soldier's funeral after he sent them off to die for you fucking repubs.

Yeah, maybe Kerry flip flops. Maybe that's not too bad. Maybe Kerry's only platform is "I'm Not Bush." But lets remember, wtf was Bush's platform? Oh yeah! i bet it didn't involve spending so much fucking money, taking away the rights of the citizens of the country that he stole the election of, or dropping his fucking dog on its head.

Champagne Division. Hah. "Look at me, i'm fucking George W. Bush, I don't have to go to war myself when i was young, so i'm going to send a bunch of kids over there for shits and giggles (well, I HAD A GREAT REASON UNTIL I REALIZED MY INFOZ WERE STOLED)...Oh yeah, and did i mention torture and humiliation of innocent people? Oh wait...most people that support bush don't give a shit anyway, because all muslim people are evil, because as Boykin said, "Our god is bigger than their god".

Fuck you, Republicans. Pull your head out your collective yuppie asses and realize you shit has been fed to you, and you gobbled it up like a Good Aryan Boy.

,i,, ,,i,

Darmu, Green Party Hippie Pirate.
K1SSK1nG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 01:46 AM   #20
Ulujain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: La La Land
Posts: 1,930
I've often wondered what's so conservative about the Republicans. Conservative parties usually spend within their means. The Republicans are about the best example on this planet of living in the red.

Unless conservative in American English means "Christian right-wing, anti-gay, The Waltons as an example of family values, Zolmaz as an example of sad sack alcoholism, we kick Islamiac ass."

'Cos they're definitely not conserving anything financial.
__________________
S.I.G.N.A.T.U.R.E.
Ulujain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 02:51 AM   #21
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
My party is better than your par...hrm.

My candidate can beat up your cand...no, not what I was looking for.

Stupid con...dem...still not it.


Originally Posted by Everclear
I think both parties symbolize these ideals...in their own ways.
Ah, yeeeeeah. Here's the one I agreed with.

/not in the virtual-penis-waving-contest sort of mood today.
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.