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Old 01-09-2004, 02:53 PM   #76
Frekkels
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Hail,

And then there is the 3rd type of Trader. The person like me who marks their items 10-20% lower than everyone else in order to move items (that we looted or won on a roll) that nobody in our immediate circle of friends needs. We aren't online trading anywhere near as much as the first two types, because our total enjoyment of the game isn't directly related to our profit, though we enjoy the pp cash like most anyone else.

If I had the time that I could find a list of 'needy' people who are scraping to come up with every kpp, I would sell exclusively to them. But I don't, so I ask around a bit before putting that (junk to me personally) Cloak of Greater Pernicity or whatever on sale for 2-3kpp below what every other active trader is selling them for. Sometimes I find a friend of a friend who is still wearing that Coterie General crap or whatever, and we can make a mutually beneficial deal that saves them money. Generally I'll use the auction channel (/auction & auction:auction) first before going into the indiscriminate trader mode.

It does bother me when I price a decent item low and see it snapped up for resale at 2x my cost. Though I'm not going to lose sleep over it (since it did sell), it is sad that it is going to end up on a rich person's twink (or someone who bought pp w/ cash) instead of someone 'stuck but happy' in a small family guild that can't obtain nice stuff as easily on their own.

As an example, I had an Acid Scarred Chain Tunic that I spent DKP on in a former guild. I wore that BP as my chest piece for about a month or two before upgrading to an Ornate BP (that I also won w/ DKP & still wear). I held onto it for some time, and loaned it out to a few of my friends IG for awhile. Eventually, most of my friends were in Tae Ew, Ornate, or Vindi's at the least, so when it was returned I decided to sell it to help fund my own ornate boots purchase (which I was later gouged on for 90kpp when they were going for 60k).

I put that tunic up for what I thought was a very reasonable price and went to bed. I had asked around extensively beforehand to try to find a worthy home for it, but couldn't find any takers. That tunic was snapped up by Annti who has had it on sale EVER SINCE (it has been months now - look for it in the bazaar, it is often the only one available) for way over double the price I was originally selling it for. That's his right of course.

When there are traders like Lamewl who buy up all the good deals, it is hard for the small player to find a really good deal. Lamewl may or may not set her price to the 'low' end of the bazaar, but bazaar prices are inherently inflated in my opinion on many items compared to what you can find by asking around with acquaintances. Compare it to buying a used car at a dealership versus buying one from your neighbor. Who is more likely to cut you a deal & not try to maximize profit?

There are nice people out there. I benefitted from them (like Gloriana for example) on my way up to 65 when I was relatively poor and struggling for pp. Now that I have some cash in the bank and discretionary pp to blow, it is nice when I can pass on those types of kindnesses to others.

Unfortunately I just don't have the time to look long enough on every item to find someone looking for the best deal, so frequently my wares will end up on one of the professional traders. I don't despise Lamewl's version of playing trader, but I'm not entirely comfortable with it either, as it usually hurts the smaller player & generally benefits the 'power' player. But that's life in EQ, and it doesn't make Lamewl evil for not sharing my own views. I do respect Lamewl's honesty about being a professional trader and she is one of the friendliest player-merchants out there. I think she'd cut anyone a really good deal if they would just include some Kejek cat nip in the deal.

Take care,
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Old 01-09-2004, 03:31 PM   #77
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OMG, you are sooo right, I'm down to just one sack left!!
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Old 01-09-2004, 03:37 PM   #78
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Lamewl has been down right good to me. From my point of view its much easier for me to send her a tell asking for her to just grab X item for the wifes char than to spend an hour or so hunting for it in the bazaar /auction or on the boards. Being in a raid guild Time>Money for me. the convienance she provides has more than paid for itself in my being less tied up with trivial matters and more able to assist my guild.

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Old 01-09-2004, 04:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Lamewl
If you'll take the time to do business with me, or even look up my prices in the bazaar, you'll find that almost all of them are near the lowest there
An example of your "lowest prices"
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Old 01-09-2004, 05:06 PM   #80
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That'd be a more valid picture if it carried a price comparison between Lamewl's item prices as well as other people's prices who sell the same items, Reddoak.

(And how did my original reply to Reddoak end up in the America Under Attack forum on a thread posted three years ago??)
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Old 01-09-2004, 05:09 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Zelgadis
That'd be a more valid picture if it carried a price comparison between Lamewl's item prices as well as other people's prices who sell the same items, Reddoak.

(And how did my original reply to Reddoak end up in the America Under Attack forum on a thread posted three years ago??)
Sorry, I should've done that. Nontheless, some of Lamewl's "low prices"
make me want to vomit, as quite a few of those are marked up beyond
the "I live in Crazyville" range compared to their overall stats.
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Old 01-09-2004, 06:11 PM   #82
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Well, you know, you're welcome to your opinion, Reddoak. And others are welcome to theirs. You must've taken that shot last night or this morning at which time, incidentally, I had just gone through and lowered prices, so for all of those items, if there were any others in the bazaar, mine were the same price or cheaper (unless someone has undercut me since last night). You also, I notice, took a shot of mostly items that nobody else is selling...I still invite anyone to come by and look up my prices and compare them to others (when there are others up). Not that I feel like I'm answerable to anyone as to how I set my prices, but I'm really tired of being accused of being the sole cause of all high prices and economic woes on Emarr.

It reminds me of a tell I got last night. I had put a White Dragon Helm up for 330k late last night, and the tell was to the effect of, "OMG, give me some of the drugs you're on, WD helm for 330k? ROFL!" The helm sold overnight.

Items are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them. I just don't get why people have to push their ideas of an item's worth onto others. To me on my old server, a WD Helm would have been "worth" about 5k, because that was 50-90% of my entire fortune on average. I never bitched at the people selling them for hundreds of k. I just went without. And I survived!
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Old 01-09-2004, 07:32 PM   #83
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That screenshot was taken 5 minutes before
the post it was linked to. Thank you for playing
"The Price is Wrong!".
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Old 01-13-2004, 03:53 AM   #84
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Lamewl should have just painted a big ass bullseye between her/his/its eyes, now dont get me wrong i hold no grudge against lamewl, in fact i have heard a lot of good things about her/him/it. I personally respect the way she/he/it manages to stay in the bazaar for god knows how long and not go insane

I personally am not a rich player, i dont group a lot, i raid even less (outside of guild) so i can understand the fustration of people when they see someone selling armor/items for ammounts that i'll prolly never even see.

Some people are just plain jelous of the ammount of plat and items the higher end people and players have, but for the most part its fustration, imho of course.

Just my 2cp
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Old 01-13-2004, 04:23 AM   #85
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You also, I notice, took a shot of mostly items that nobody else is selling
And how many of those "unique" items were originally on other traders for about half of what you're selling? If anyone is trying to push their ideas of an item's worth onto others, it's you.
I still invite anyone to come by and look up my prices and compare them to others (when there are others up).
And, as I've stated, I've done so. I've spent a good share of my time in the bazaar on my trader mule (just love to window shop) and your price is *never* the lowest there, but usually the highest. Of course, I'm sure I *always* catch you just before you change your prices .
Not that I feel like I'm answerable to anyone as to how I set my prices, but I'm really tired of being accused of being the sole cause of all high prices and economic woes on Emarr.
Don't think anyone's saying that it's your fault alone, but it's you and people like you that have driven a lot of items out of reach for your common player. Sure, you're going to have people buy some things at outlandish prices, simply because they're impatient or have the plat to blow. It's just like the sheiks over in the Middle East that have entire bathrooms made out of solid gold.

Was reading the other day about the guy who found an original copy of the Declaration of Independence inside an old painting (yes, that actually did happen). It was appraised at 1.2 million dollars, but ultimately sold for over 8 million, almost 4 times its worth. In other words, just because a White Dragonscale Helm sells for 330k doesn't mean that is its worth. Someone with more plat than they can spend decided to buy it instead of waiting around for a better deal (bet I know who, too). That is hardly indicative of your average player. But, of course, as long as your wallet is fat, what do you care, eh?
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Old 01-13-2004, 05:54 AM   #86
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Default fucking nuts...

Not all players are created equal.

If you can't afford Lamewl's items, the shut up and don't buy them. I just love how everyone who hates Lamewl feels that they are somehow entitled to cheap, uber items just because they are a seasoned player who doesn't accumulate a ton of plat, or belong to a big guild, etc. That screenshot is complete BS, Reddoak. Lamewl sells high end items, of course they all 'appear' pricey in that screenshot...but if you'd look at just an item, say a piece of ornate, and compare prices to what others are selling you'd find that Lamewl's prices are just as she said...on the lower end for most. FYI, I've sold low end gear to Lamewl before on a fairly regular basis.

It's pretty simple, if you don't like the way things are then don't buy items. Join a guild, team up with some friends, god forbid earn items yourself! Not every player is created equal, and not every player is going to have the same gear as people who work their tails off camping and raiding to get that gear.

Waaa waaa I can't get Ornate it's so ridiculously priced...so what? A lot of people can't afford that stuff. Go do something about it. Put in the time to earn the plats, camp the items, or earn the points to buy similar gear via LDoN. You can't just expect the world to be handed over because you disagree with how people do business in the bazaar. Newsflash, it's not like this is some new practice that Lamewl devised!

I don't like high prices as much as the next guy, but the online economy and Lamewl's practices of buying cheap and selling for a profit aren't ruining anything, you bunch of whiners.

/rant off

Monticore

EDITED FOR CONTENT. Sorry, didn't realize this was general until I said the f word about 100 times. Sorry kids.

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Old 01-13-2004, 06:10 AM   #87
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Monticore, can you read? I have checked her prices and they aren't on the low end of the spectrum. You know what else? She doesn't have anything I want to buy, numbnuts. And I'm not even suggesting that everyone should be able to buy everything, you complete fucking moron (I can be abusive, too!). But then, it would sure sound a lot better for your argument, wouldn't it, you worthless loser? And, as I said again, no one is blaming Lamewl solely for wrecking the economy, but it is the practice of taking reasonably priced items and jacking them up to ridiculous levels, that fucks things up. If you don't think that practice disturbs anything, then you're an even bigger imbecile than your post would indicate, and buddy, that's not easy to do. Lamewl is being used as an example, understand? Didn't think so. Next time, why don't you wait until both your brain cells are firing before opening your ignorant mouth.

PS - whining about whiners is still whining....you fucking whiner
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Old 01-13-2004, 06:15 AM   #88
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Default one

Thanks for the comments. I wasn't replying directly to your post, but I'll deal with what you sling as well. One vendor still doesn't make or break the bazaar economy! Deals can still be found! Reasonably priced items are still there! The point of my post is that not all items are ever going to be able to be readily obtained by every player...I mean I'd love to have a Sceptre of Destruction and it's dumb that it costs 500k in the bazaar to buy it! Waaa! Let's cry about it and blame people like Lamewl? That's just retarded.

You can't just stop people from buying items and selling them higher. Define reasonably priced? You can't because the people who buy and sell on the server dictate what that number is! If it's unreasonable, then people won't buy it. Over time, as somebody pointed out, the price will drop if it is ridiculously priced...it's the invisible hand in action! If you're pissed because other vendors, who like to buy and sell items, can make more money than you, then you've just got to accept that reselling is a major business. I mean that's basically all the powermules do, hence their presence in the bazaar 24/7. Sure, I'm not thrilled with earning less on an item than somebody who wants to camp the bazaar, but if that's how they want to play the game then that's fine. I'd rather go do stuff, personally, so I sell for much less just to offload the items or sell a big lot to Lamewl for a big discount.

I don't care if you personally don't want Lamewl's items. That has nothing to do with anything...however, I have also personally checked her items, on a weekend to weekend basis, and they are usually right in line with everyone elses. Oh no your word against mine! What am I going to do now?!?

Monticore and his two brain cells.

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Old 01-13-2004, 07:27 AM   #89
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It reminds me of a tell I got last night. I had put a White Dragon Helm up for 330k late last night, and the tell was to the effect of, "OMG, give me some of the drugs you're on, WD helm for 330k? ROFL!" The helm sold overnight.
You probably wouldn't of gotten 330k for it had the other person not wanted to hassle with trying to buy another one and had nothing else to spend his plat on. I know said person who bought it. He wasn't able to get to it fast enough before you bought it and resold it.

Thats ok because if there now worth 330k. I've made a 500k profit on the ones I have when I get to sell them /snicker.

Three months ago they were going for 170 to 200k. I bought one about a month ago for 250k which is what they were worth for several months before several got dumped on the market. I'm looking for another one currently and I'm willing to give the uninformed trader 250k for it if you wanna part with it.
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:38 AM   #90
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One vendor still doesn't make or break the bazaar economy!
*gasp* I believe I've said that multiple times now! As have I also said that I don't care who has however much more plat than I have, as there really isn't anything out there that I want to buy, be it from Lamewl or anyone else.
Let's cry about it and blame people like Lamewl? That's just retarded.
If you don't believe her actions and the actions of other price gougers out there affect the economy, then I'm wasting my time here.

Let me see if I can explain this; I'll type slowly so you can keep up. Three months ago a Staff of Flowing Water costs, on average, 75k. It was like that for awhile. Seemingly overnight, the price shot up to 125k. Why? They are no more or less rare than they were 3 months ago. The demand for this item hasn't taken a dramatic turn, as a lot of people have one already. The drop rate hasn't changed and the giant that drops it is just as farmed now as he ever was. And the stats on the item haven't changed. So yeah, I'm calling 125k an unreasonable price for that item.

And ornate armor...sure, the drop rate has changed from when it was first altered, but have you really seen a shortage in ornate armor? No. Then why do you see pieces selling for triple what they used to? There is no reason for this change, other than traders taking advantage of the sudden increase in plat from two months ago. But that's kinda like life: less than 5% of the population are responsible for over half the money floating about.

Imagine rich folks out there start buying Ford Mustangs for double their retail value. They don't feel like looking around and they want a car now, now, now. Now, dealers everywhere are jacking up the prices on all Mustangs, because some people (a very small minority) will pay for the convenience. Does that seem reasonable to you?
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:59 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Aarial
You probably wouldn't of gotten 330k for it had the other person not wanted to hassle with trying to buy another one and had nothing else to spend his plat on
I once gave Aarial over 100kpp for a Tae Ew Tunic. Har har har.

Granted it was one of the first 2 made on the server...but that just goes to show what impatience and a lot of extra pp laying around can accomplish.

(no she probably wouldn't have charged that much but my first tell to her was that offer and I whined and begged til she gave in)
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:03 AM   #92
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Default my point, and i do have one...

My point is that nothing has really changed at all. There always has been price gouging, and there always will be. Either you save up and pay the price for that item you want, or you go without. That's how it has always been...perhaps it's a bit more 'visible' now with the bazaar but that's more a downside of having a bazaar functionality-type zone than because of price increases and plat exploits.

Also, it could be argued, that the items from older content are more rare now because the Magisters and Afflictions of the server have moved on and aren't farming that stuff anymore. An Obulus Death Shroud is still an awful expensive piece of upper mid equipment and it comes from a Kunark zone, etc. As more people spend more times in PoP and LDoN, all those other zones where these items dropped are being frequented much less. Seen any OS groups looking for more lately? Didn't think so. Now as to how much this really affects the staff of flowing water or the rate that ornate drops, etc. that remains to be seen. Just thought I'd point that out, I guess...I'm not sure it has much weight but I do think it could be a factor.

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Old 01-13-2004, 08:06 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Wildane
They are no more or less rare than they were 3 months ago.
You're absolutely correct Wildane, the items aren't any more or less rare than they were 3 or even 6 months ago, but there's 2 halves of this equation. You see, PLAT is MUCH more abundant now than it was 3 or 6 months ago. When the amount of currency rotating through the market doubles, you know what effect that has on the market? Yup, prices double.

Between LDoN dropping alot more plat than compared to PoP zones, and the plat "exploits" (whether they happened or not is a different argument, people BELEIVE they happened, so the percieved value of plat is lower) plat is much less rare than it used to be. The more plat comes into the market, the higher the prices will go, because more people can AFFORD those prices. The prices will continue to rise as long as there's someone out there that has the money to afford to buy an item at a higher price.

I mean come on, if I had 10 people offer me 100pp for an item, but there was the 11th person who "really needed this item" and would buy it for 500pp, guess who I'm gonna sell it to? As long as people are willing to pay more for what they want, items will cost more.

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Old 01-13-2004, 09:12 PM   #94
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Gah! Why won't this thread die?

Originally Posted by wildane
And how many of those "unique" items were originally on other traders for about half of what you're selling?
Almost none of them. The vast majority of my items come from people who send me tells and offer them directly to me, and I make them a fair offer. I even, quite often (and as has already been brought up in this or another recent thread), offer someone more than they asked because I thought they were cheating themselves.

Originally Posted by wildane
your price is *never* the lowest there, but usually the highest. Of course, I'm sure I *always* catch you just before you change your prices .
Ok...since you absolutely insist on denying reality, let's take a look at some high end items in bazaar right this very second (and no, although I predict this accusation is coming, I did not just change them).
obsidianwood bow...up for 145-150k, mine is 145
ornate leather gloves...35-50k, mine is 35
ornate leather wristband...90-110k, mine is 90
ornate silk gloves pattern...30-40k, mine is 33
ornate vamb mold...89-120k, mine is 89
vampiric coif of the grave...65-68k, mine is 68 (omg, you must be right! I have a price that is the highest by 3k!!)
corpsegrinder...24-35k, mine is 24
phase spider carapace...9.9-12k, mine is 9.9k
armor of the zealot...38-60k, mine is 38 (next lowest is 45)
and there are more...mine is the highest on like 3 items, by a few k.

So please, Wildane, list me some items on which my price is the highest by any significant margin. Particularly since you insist that almost all of my prices are the highest.

How pointless is this argument? Anyone can come look up my prices, anytime, and see that you are wrong. In addition, what the hell does it matter or do you care whether my prices are twice the highest or half the lowest? People will pay what they are willing to pay and no more.

Originally Posted by wildane
Seemingly overnight, the price shot up to 125k. Why?
Have you not been reading or listening for the past month or two? Haven't we already covered this in this very thread?

Originally Posted by wildane
And ornate armor...sure, the drop rate has changed from when it was first altered, but have you really seen a shortage in ornate armor? No. Then why do you see pieces selling for triple what they used to?
Actually, the prices on the majority of pieces are now back down to what they were before the inflation. If the sellers really had that much effect on the economy, why wouldn't they keep the prices higher so they could make more money? Maybe they're not really what controls the economy, after all? Maybe it's supply and demand and the fact that the crap has been farmed out of sol ro lately?

Originally Posted by wildane
There is no reason for this change, other than traders taking advantage of the sudden increase in plat from two months ago.
I believe this has been pointed out to you already as well, but let's try again.

If fungis had been set at 40k each, the exploiters would have bought them all up. If fungis had been set at 80k each (and most of them were at the time), the exploiters would have bought them all up (and they did). If fungis had been set at 150k each, the exploiters most likely would have bought them all up.

Net result: no fungis available for the regular players (or exploiters, eventually). And when your "average joe" came along trying to sell his fungi, you better believe that he wanted 80k, every bit as much as the "pro traders" did. I guess he is a greedy economy-wrecker too. Or is it ok to "gouge" as long as you're an average family guild player who has less than a certain amount of pp in your bank?

Originally Posted by wildane
Imagine rich folks out there start buying Ford Mustangs for double their retail value. They don't feel like looking around and they want a car now, now, now. Now, dealers everywhere are jacking up the prices on all Mustangs, because some people (a very small minority) will pay for the convenience. Does that seem reasonable to you?
Wildane, I really believe that the root of our disagreement lies in your tenuous grasp on the concept of economics, supply and demand to be specific.
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Old 01-13-2004, 09:50 PM   #95
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I think one reason people don't like Lamewl is because you can't get the best price out of her without doing some work. The bazaar caters to lazy folks, so naturally they're annoyed when they actually have to TALK to somebody to get a good deal on the item they're after.

Lamewl's prices can seem high at times, but there are a lot of factors that can play into that. Are you always there when she puts the item up for sale? Do you know exactly who all was selling it and for what price every time she puts an item up for sale? Walking into the bazaar and making a single observation at any given time just gives you a snapshot of what is going on, it doesn't tell the whole story.

Lamewl's selling practices remind me a lot of typical retail. She puts the item out for a price based on a general appraisal of the market value. If it sells quickly, she'll mark the next one up a bit. If it still sells quickly, she'll mark it up a bit more. If it stagnates for days and doesn't sell, she'll gradually bring the price down. That's just smart business.

A good portion of the difference of opinion that many people have w/ Lamewl is that she treats the bazaar as a business; most others don't. That is, however, how she chooses to play EQ. The bazaar is not the only source of any item in EverQuest. Everything you see there can be obtained some other way. Not everybody in the game is 'entitled' to every item, and especially if you're not willing to work for it. A little patience or motivation goes a long way.
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Old 01-13-2004, 10:01 PM   #96
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Just for the record, I have dumped alot of items on Lamewl, simply because I do not like the bazaar or setting up a trader. I like it that there is a person to do this with very much. Sometimes I even rip myself off when i need one of the items at a later date for a twink. I simply take the loss and move on.

Ornate was cheap because it was dropping alot and people was all undercutting each other to get rid of it. Once people stopped farming it heavily, prices went back up. It is all about supply and demand, regardless if Lamewl has higher prices or not.

In reality Lamewl does what she has fun in the game with, why do you care so bad? This is a game, you do remember that, right?
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