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Old 06-21-2005, 10:17 PM   #26
aganitte
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Didn't Congress approve a 81 billion dollar budget, mostly for the military? Where the fook is the cash going?
Don't get me wrong, I was stolidly against the war in Iraq, but now that the boys are there, for god's sake, arm them to the teeth. Not one of them should die because the US Govt was a skinflint with them.

If anyone has any information on how the govt. is spending the billions approved for war, post it.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:26 PM   #27
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If anyone has any information on how the govt. is spending the billions approved for war, post it.
It will just be more anecdotal evidence like the original link in this thread was.
So why bother.
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Old 06-22-2005, 05:17 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Viriel
Most people don't get special credit for meeting the minimum perfomance requirements of their job, but whatever.
You're absolutely right about that.

Our military defense is the way it is because of years of neglect. There were base closings and downsizings and subpar gear and equipment long before GWB stepped into office. My dad was in for 22 years before he retired, and says that the upgrades and improvements of late are substantial. Each of my brothers have been in for 5ish years each, and have seen substantial improvements even since they joined prior to 9/11.

So do we blast GWB for them having shitty gear, or do we recognize that he's tried to make improvements during his time in office? Do we expect immediate results, or do we understand that effecting sweeping change across all branches of the military takes time? Do we understand that upgrades take time, permission, and money to acquire, or do we expect him to pull state-of-the-art gear out of thin air, overnight?
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Old 06-22-2005, 05:24 AM   #29
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I think what Frekkels posted is correct. In all the hearings I have watched it seemed that manufacturing is the problem... I would totally be willing to believe this, since the American manufacturing sector was in the toilet, and has only RECENTLY began to show growth.

Also, I would ask you to consider something else. Aside from the war, what is one of America's largest concerns? The economy. Now I am not saying everything is perfect, BUT since the manufacturing sector HAS shown growth (finally), and it HAS been touted as an economic indicator by the Bushies.... do you not think it's possible that the money has been sunk into the economy through American contracts, so.... the tradeoff off the economic boost is the time of restructuring the manufacturing sector in America?

It DOES make sense... I mean you could have quick supplies, and our money shipped overseas by the bargeload... or we could take that huge appropriation, sink into our own economy that was sinking like a lead balloon, and try to knock out 2 birds with one stone?

NOW... that leaves the one ethical question... what rols is this war really serving? Is it really a war for peace? Or a war for headlines? (AQ and economic recovery?)
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Old 06-22-2005, 07:30 AM   #30
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Or a war for the military industrial complex and oil business?
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Old 06-22-2005, 07:39 AM   #31
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Maybe? Losing the War on Terror, but Winning the War on Economic Stagnation? hmm... Going to war for monetary reasons afterall? IMO it's a better reason than the BS we were fed at the time... but who knows?
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Old 06-22-2005, 07:41 AM   #32
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yar but people don't like to hear that reason. truth or not.
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Old 06-22-2005, 07:42 AM   #33
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Old 06-22-2005, 08:01 AM   #34
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So do we blast GWB for them having shitty gear, or do we recognize that he's tried to make improvements during his time in office? Do we expect immediate results, or do we understand that effecting sweeping change across all branches of the military takes time? Do we understand that upgrades take time, permission, and money to acquire, or do we expect him to pull state-of-the-art gear out of thin air, overnight?
Perhaps Bush could have geared up the troops before going into Iraq. The timeline for military action was his decision.
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Old 06-22-2005, 08:59 AM   #35
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Marine Corps units fighting in some of the most dangerous terrain in Iraq don't have enough weapons, communications gear, or properly outfitted vehicles, according to an investigation by the Marine Corps' inspector general provided to Congress yesterday.
This is only IMO, because I dont know much about the Marine Corps, but I think the biggest problem with the Marines in this situation is that Marines are a Specialized Combat Department, the Marine Corps as getting its name is ment for amphibious assualts or quick interventions with massive firepower for a short duration of time, they were never ment to self sustain. They were made to take and hold an area in a fairly quick time then allow the Army to move in and set up. The problem here is the Marines are working independent it seems from the rest of the theater.

As far as where the money goes that was appointed to the war. Its all been invested over here, I think there might also be a problem with funding with the Marines due to them being a Department of the Navy but I wouldn't know.
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Old 06-22-2005, 09:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Viriel
Perhaps Bush could have geared up the troops before going into Iraq. The timeline for military action was his decision.
What are the odds of him getting the permission and funding for sweeping changes in all branches of the military prior to launching a major offensive near the beginning of his term?

Last edited by Brigiid; 06-22-2005 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Added in the quote...
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Old 06-22-2005, 09:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Metzen
This is only IMO, because I dont know much about the Marine Corps, but I think the biggest problem with the Marines in this situation is that Marines are a Specialized Combat Department, the Marine Corps as getting its name is ment for amphibious assualts...
Putting Marines in the desert is kind of ironic from a purely linguistics point of view. All the space aliens listening into our news broadcasts are probably wondering "WTF".
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:21 AM   #38
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I'm not saying anything about Brigiid's brothers or their units. Reading comprehension is your friend.
Clarification is your friend eh? I guess we are both 0-1 this week.
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
What are the odds of him getting the permission and funding for sweeping changes in all branches of the military prior to launching a major offensive near the beginning of his term?
And so the preferable course of action is to knowingly send them in under-geared and then start pointing fingers and saying we gotta fix this?
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:40 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
And so the preferable course of action is to knowingly send them in under-geared and then start pointing fingers and saying we gotta fix this?
Under-geared according to the media's standards, or under-geared according to the military's standards?

The military's been doing a lot with very little for a long time. Sure, it'd be nice to have the newest and shiniest everything before you have to go to war, but how feasible is that? Sure, safety and convience are great things, but just because the media doesn't think they have what they should doesn't mean they're being sent over there in sweatpants and squirtguns.
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:42 AM   #41
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I guess we are both 0-1 this week
You guessed incorrectly. I am 1-1 and you are 0-1 this week. Thanks for playing!
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:45 AM   #42
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Question:
Originally Posted by Brigiid
Under-geared according to the media's standards, or under-geared according to the military's standards?
Answer:
Originally Posted by Referenced Article
according to an investigation by the Marine Corps' inspector general provided to Congress
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
Under-geared according to the media's standards, or under-geared according to the military's standards?
It's not just the ultra-left-wing gay-rights man-hating PETA-loving anarchist communist party media that's criticized the gear.

The military's been doing a lot with very little for a long time. Sure, it'd be nice to have the newest and shiniest everything before you have to go to war, but how feasible is that?
I didn't realize this was a war of necessity?
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I didn't realize this was a war of necessity?
You and I will never agree on that, and I'm not going to argue it with you.

Originally Posted by Viriel
according to an investigation by the Marine Corps' inspector general provided to Congress
Yeah, I can find 5 people in my office that think certain things could stand to be upgraded, but it doesn't mean we aren't capable of doing our jobs without them.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:09 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
You and I will never agree on that, and I'm not going to argue it with you.
Concession becomes you
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:09 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I didn't realize this was a war of necessity?
Dont worry about it, we all know you are slow on the uptake.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:10 PM   #47
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The Marine Corps leadership has ''understated" the amount and types of ground equipment it needs, according to the investigation, concluding that all of its fighting units in Iraq ''require ground equipment that exceeds" their current supplies, ''particularly in mobility, engineering, communications, and heavy weapons."
Damn the Joint Chiefs to hell for believing the Marines when they said they weren't undersupplied!
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:11 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by crimsonedge
Dont worry about it, we all know you are slow on the uptake.
Where was the case made that we needed to go to war before our troops were properly equipped? I haven't even addressed the necessity for the war in the general sense. Being slow is your province, boy wonder, not mine.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:14 PM   #49
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I can find 5 people in my office that think certain things could stand to be upgraded, but it doesn't mean we aren't capable of doing our jobs without them
Are yours and your coworker's lives on the line in direct relationship to the quality of these office supplies?
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:17 PM   #50
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Where was the case made that we needed to go to war before our troops were properly equipped?
As you know, you go to war with the Army you have not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time -- Donald Rumsfeld

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