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Old 06-09-2005, 03:33 PM   #1
Lurikeen
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Default How many rounds does it take to stop an unarmed man in Compton?

If you guessed more than 120 you are correct!

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- More than a dozen Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department deputies will be disciplined for their roles in a controversial shooting incident in which more than 120 rounds were fired at a vehicle driven by an unarmed suspect, Sheriff Lee Baca announced Thursday.

The 13 deputies will face punishments ranging from written reprimands to 15-day suspensions, Baca said.

During the May 9 incident, a suspect led police on a 12-minute chase through Compton, considered one of the more dangerous cities in Southern California.

The chase ended when officers surrounded the vehicle and opened fire. The driver, 44-year-old Winston Hayes, was hit four times but survived.

One deputy was also wounded, Baca has said, possibly by so-called friendly fire.

Some people who live nearby reported their homes were hit by bullets as well.

Deputies later found that Hayes, who has an arrest record for narcotics and assault, was unarmed.

Baca said the department has changed its policies on firing at moving vehicles, requiring that deputies independently decide whether to shoot, rather than all firing at a single command.

Ten of the deputies involved in the shooting later offered a public apology.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/09/com...ing/index.html
I simply don't understand what the deputies could have been thinking. They are lucky nobody died because of their foolishness.
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Old 06-09-2005, 04:30 PM   #2
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NWA said it best
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:29 PM   #3
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Nah, I think Chris Rock said it much better.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:30 PM   #4
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Apparently one more than these guys used. The dude lived.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:00 PM   #5
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i wanna know how 120 rounds fired at the guy and only 4 hit him....


someone failed.
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Old 06-09-2005, 07:29 PM   #6
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A notice posted on the bulletin board at a precinct of the LAPD:

Effective immediately, use of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas as a tactical training simulator will be discontinued indefinitely. All copies of the game will be confiscated and recycled into environmentally-friendly handcuffs.

-The Management
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Old 06-09-2005, 07:44 PM   #7
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ROFL @ Marti!
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Old 06-09-2005, 09:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SupportTank
i wanna know how 120 rounds fired at the guy and only 4 hit him....


someone failed.
Cars are surprisingly resistant to bullets, especially considering police officers use weapons lower on the penetration scale due to deaths to stray fire when they carried elephant guns and shit.
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:24 PM   #9
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in all probability they wern't aiming for the guy but to disable his vehical. the 4 that hit him were prolly bouncers.

nevertheless.


120 rounds? someone did a nice fuck up. or in this case 13 someones.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:46 AM   #10
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This is just a simple question so bare with me

How many rounds would have been fired if he would have stopped?

I dunno call me crazy but did the concept of pulling over when your are stopped by an officer elude people?

Ahh hell one more simple question.

Why is it everytime some dumbass fucks up it turns out to be the cops fault? and the second part to this question, If cops arent supposed to use their weapons in possible REAL bad guys why call them when someone is trying to abduct your daughter or break into your house while you are away and your wife is home alone?

You all can say sure but they should use reasonable force and common sense ect............. but whens the last time you had some crazy bastard blow away one of your friends on a routine stop?

Ive did my share of jail time, guess what........... I was fucking guilty I deserved it, I even deserved the two ass kickings I got for not complying with the officer. (although they were mild and without the cuffs i may have had a half a chance).
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Old 06-10-2005, 02:39 AM   #11
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Cars are surprisingly resistant to bullets, especially considering police officers use weapons lower on the penetration scale due to deaths to stray fire when they carried elephant guns and shit.
I was not aware that any police, on any continent, at any period throughout the history of the world, have ever carried anything that could even remotely be considered an "elephant gun." Guns used to kill elephants are generally around .50 caliber or larger (altho not all are over .50) and are belted rifle cartridges, which carry a MUCH larger bullet and MUCH higher powder charge than a handgun like police use. The largest handgun I have ever heard of being issued to cops is a .45 ACP, which is a peashooter compared to a large game rifle, and most departments don't use anything even near that powerful anyway. most cops carry a 9mm or .40 SW as far as I know.


Cars are suprisingly resistant to projectiles, especially rounds like the 9mm the officers were most likely using, had they been using .40's, which seems to be the new trend in department issue weapons, my thoughts are that would be one dead fucker. A round with relatively small mass decelerates very, very quickly when it hits anything, in some cases just people wearing a couple layers of clothing with a winter coat is enough to make a normal load 9mm non-lethal from point blank range.

But if you really think about it, 120 rounds, while sounding like a hell of a lot, is not really that many considering there were 13 officers involved. They probably each had 15 or 17 round mags, and when one person started shooting, it only takes a few seconds to unload that mag. I think there are a lot of statistics that have studied cop shooting incidents, and found that in the vast majority of them, cops shoot till they empty their mag. Also considering that the majority of cops (albeit not in LA probably) never fire their weapons in the line of duty, when they do, it is a really stressful situation, and people can easily lose control.

I am really not sure why I posted all this crap on a thread I really don't care about, other than I am sitting at work on 3rd shift, tired and bored to crap. =p

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Old 06-10-2005, 07:02 AM   #12
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the reason this is the officers fault is pretty simple.

the guy was unarmed. theres 13 cops involved thats at least 6 cars. if they had surrounded the car allready which its states they had. they could have simply forced the car to a stop with 6 other cars.
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Old 06-10-2005, 07:04 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Wulfhere
stuff
dude... I know :P

Last edited by korast; 06-10-2005 at 07:07 AM. Reason: whoops forgot to quote wulfhere
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Old 06-10-2005, 07:06 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by SupportTank
the reason this is the officers fault is pretty simple.

the guy was unarmed. theres 13 cops involved thats at least 6 cars. if they had surrounded the car allready which its states they had. they could have simply forced the car to a stop with 6 other cars.
You can pin a car and they can break out. When a cop is in danger of getting run over, its shoot to kill time. Moral of the story is pull over and cooperate. I dont feel sorry for this guy.
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Old 06-10-2005, 08:28 AM   #15
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The guy was NOT unarmed, he had a car at his disposal. If he tried to run an officer down, he would be charged with "Assault with a Deadly Weapon"!
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Old 06-10-2005, 08:39 AM   #16
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The only difference between weapons and non weapons is creativity. Even though people may technically be unarmed, doesnt mean they dont have at their disposal methods of killing. Inmountains is correct, a car is a very dangerous weapon indeed. The cops were most likely justified in their shooting, but appologized for pr reasons, as most people are crazed and dont hold to reason despite proof of what actually occured.
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:56 AM   #17
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i have no issues with police using force to stop vehicals. and yes a guy using a vehical is using a weapon.

it doesn't say in the info if he was using it as a weapon or not or using it as something to run away in.

the second the runner starts to use the vehical as a weapon is when the police should be allowed to pull out enough force to stop the weapon.

in this case the guns. but 120 rounds tells me someone went way overboard.
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Old 06-10-2005, 11:11 AM   #18
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If you are a cop, regardless of how many other cops are there, and you don't know if the guy has a gun or not...you're going to rely on your fellow officers to inform you if the guy is dangerous or not...and visa versa. If your partner says "fire" you'd have to assume he/she saw something you didn't. You don't know if the guy has a gun or not. You start firing and hearing other shots. You don't know if any of those shots are from the suspect or not, but you see him moving and you keep shooting.

It's a hard call.
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Old 06-10-2005, 11:24 AM   #19
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In my opinion the only thing hard here is the assholes head who didnt pull over.

I used to jump on cops asses when I got MYSELF in trouble, Ive learned through fines, a little bit of overnight stays in the crowbar motel and a couple of knots on the head that the one way to keep a cop happy is behave yourself.

Police officers have a dangerous and stressfull job, (not to mention some of them may get hyper from the sugar in their donuts ) they don't want to be out getting shot at or chasing some dumbass (who they know is going to sue them if anything happens) down the interstate at high speeds not knowing if hes going to kill someone or if he has ALREADY killed someone.

They have a tough job but in my opinion the only person who should EVER be responsible for ANYTHING that happens in these situations is the person trying to elude the police. (by that I mean take the consequences fore EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that gets hurt in the process).

BTW even if it is just a stolen car that is still a felony in our country, is anyone here saying we should let felons run wild with no consequences to their actions untill they feel like taking a breaK at the state facilities?
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:48 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SupportTank
in this case the guns. but 120 rounds tells me someone went way overboard.
If you shoot to kill, you shoot to kill. All the cops likely emptied their clips on the word of the officer which decided to escalate to deadly force.
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Old 06-10-2005, 02:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Martigan
It's a hard call.
Well, there were 13 deputies who stopped the vehicle. The vehicle was surrounded by the deputies when they all opened fire. That by itself is excessive.

The article doesn't note if any of the deputies had seen a weapon. However, even if they did see a weapon it certainly doesn't take 13 deputies and 120+ rounds of Ammo to stop a surrounded vehicle, take cover (I am assuming they could since they had the suspect surrounded), and call for the driver to get out of the vehicle and lay flat on the ground while a couple deputies approach the suspect. Right? These men are supposed to be trained in how to subdue suspects without threatening the lives of bystanders, themselves, and the suspect.
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:31 PM   #22
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It's really not that diffucult to answer this.. I stand by my original post.

Originally Posted by Ice Cube
Fuck tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

There's a problem with institutionalized racism. I'd like to see someone post up some incidents like this happning where the suspect is white.
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:45 PM   #23
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Blame the manufacturers of target range supplies. They only make the human targets in black and apparently it becomes a habit. I would like to see them develope a new target though, maybe a dude in a 84 Cadillac or something. So the police are better prepared for future situations.
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Old 06-10-2005, 06:09 PM   #24
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Yes, the manufacturers of the "Running nigger target" would be party to the problem at hand here.
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Old 06-10-2005, 06:38 PM   #25
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Or maybe the highly coveted Bleeding Heart pattern.

"Just aim for the wet spot"
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