Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > NON EQ Stuff (Real life, other games, etc.) > Steam Vent


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2004, 03:07 PM   #26
bumbleroot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,756
For no cost at all and for an endless solution we could foster the growth of industry in South and Central America. That would do more to solve the immigration problem than anything else.
The reason we don't do that is because it is politically unpopular on a local level. That doesn't mean its wrong, just unpopular. NAFTA is a good idea. We are not losing jobs down south because we are losing them to those countries who have successfully implemented the same principles of it.
If those countries to the south of us were economically viable, immigration would slow down quite a bit. That is a win-win for all. Instead we throw up impediments to this happening.
bumbleroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 04:39 PM   #27
Chiteng
Supporter
 
Chiteng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,240
Mexicans have boats. Suggest something that will WORK.
__________________
It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.

Voltaire

'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'

French Priest
Chiteng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 04:46 PM   #28
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
I said Bush's plan will cover the illegals that are already over here, im talking about keeping future illegals the fuck out. We dont need more people in this country, we got more than enough. I think if we install a moat with a fence in the middle that rises 20 feet above water level that will keep out anyone who tries to float across and will make it easier for the coast guard to zoom by and pick up the stragglers. We dont have a big problem keeping the cuban exiles from swimming here. the only problem is with the politics of it. If we start taking a hard line on these people they will eventually get the message that if they really want to come live/work in the US then they have to do so through legal channels.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 05:07 PM   #29
Davek
Squawk Box
 
Davek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ini is the wind beneath my wings.
Posts: 7,987
they have to do so through legal channels
Good choice of words!
__________________
Davek Bonemender ~ Guild Leader of Sunrunners ~
~ Retired with 8 years of service ~
~ Semi-unretired 2012 ~

Man that just rolls off the tongue nicely.

Originally Posted by Karthanon View Post
I know, you're in Ottawa, Davek. Still, I can't help but /poke you.
Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
And you wonder why I don't play nice with you? You leave my man buttons alone.. Those are Davek's.
Davek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 05:22 PM   #30
bumbleroot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,756
We dont have a big problem keeping the cuban exiles from swimming here.
Thats because you don't live in South Florida.
There are plenty of Cubans immigrating here. You only hear about the ones we catch.
Having lived in Florida, I'm a bit aware of what is going on. What you forget is there are many people who own boats going into international waters to retrieve Cubans and bring them back to America. Its called smuggling. It is common and will be so even if you have a moat. That is why it is important to fix the problem and not do temporary fixes. Until you go to the root of the problem, the problem will always be there.

Last edited by bumbleroot; 11-23-2004 at 05:36 PM.
bumbleroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 06:58 PM   #31
Xerion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,215
Originally Posted by Veo
In America, going to college automatically lands you a job outside of school that pays at the top end of the scale, so why bother getting an entry level job.
Yeah and you don't have to be smart to get into college. Just become a jock.
Xerion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 08:39 PM   #32
Heretic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by Chukzombi
Well if Bush manages to push his guest labor thingy through, the illegals who are already here can stay as guests and they will work the jobs that lazy americans wont do becuase they love welfare so much.
I won't deny that there are some lazy Americans on welfare. This idea by Bush however is NOT a good thing. If it becomes legal for the illegals to work here as guests, we will see a supersurge crossing the border, and companies firing American workers for cheaper ones. Outsourcing : Home Edition


Originally Posted by Shard
We could stock it with sharks with friggin laser beams on their heads.
lol (Hmm, Shard made a funny. The end is nigh!)


Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
try building moats around our country, what message does that send to the world? It says that we are ready to take anyone on regardless.
What? Why should anyone else care (except Mexico) that we built a moat?


Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
That would figure though. Both Bushes and Clinton had extended talks with Mexican officials and other South American leaders. They realize that getting jobs (NAFTA) down south will help and that helping the South American economy get on its feet helps as well. If the economies were stronger there immigration would be less.
I understand your stance, but I don't think sending a few companies over there will fix their problem. You are essentially helping another country's economy by screwing over ours.


Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
For no cost at all and for an endless solution we could foster the growth of industry in South and Central America.
No cost???


Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
NAFTA is a good idea.
NAFTA to Clinton is the same as Iraq war to Bush for me. Those are my main oppositions to the men.


As to my view of the moat idea, I think it is an extreme solution that would show little results. The cost would be ENORMOUS, and Illegals would just take boats around the moat. Seriously, the main thing we need to do is to ENFORCE laws we currently have. Ship their asses back. Have stronger checks at places of employment. Maybe hold companies responsible for hiring illegals.
__________________
bg85 on another forum:
"i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit."

Heretic
Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 08:45 PM   #33
ShardmoonVer.1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 7,457
You guys are over looking the obvious solution. Arrest, prosecute, and sentence them to work as.... cheap labor. The only difference being is the money they earn goes to pay for their up keep instead of their families support back home.

You have 2 choices on this issue. Either fix their countries so they have no reason to come to ours. Or make coming to ours unprofitable.
__________________
If you don't have something good to say about some one, say it loud.
ShardmoonVer.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2004, 10:56 PM   #34
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
First of all, i mentioned the moat would have a middle barrier that would block all boats from skimming across. Second even if there was no barrier in the middle and illegals were building little shitboats to float across, thats still only a small fraction of the amount of people sneaking over our borders right now with no impediment.

Yeah it would be a big project but it wouldnt be a high tech program. There is no skill in digging a big ditch and lugging the dirt out. Pouring the concrete on either side to contain the water wouldnt be a tough or highly skilled type of task either. This is a simple solution that would effectively reduce the illegal immigration problem we have.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:53 AM   #35
Sakkath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,026
The UK has a big 'moat' around it....it doesn't solve your problem
Sakkath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 02:39 AM   #36
VenomsLust
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Misawa, Japan
Posts: 193
Send a message via Yahoo to VenomsLust
Since we're pulling out "Extreme" possibilities...

1) Setup guard posts at 1 mile intervals. The guards will have orders to open fire on anyone that comes across. Shoot to kill. A couple thousand dead and televised in South America should slow down the influx.

2) Duplicate the Great Wall of China (why can't we have one too?), mount electrified barbed wire along the upper rim (Mexico side). Armed patrols will be on the wall, patrolling in some electric vehicle (golf carts?).

3) Nuke Mexico.

4) Set triangulating-motion-sensing turrets, set for large (man-sized) targets at quarter-mile intervals, in small "shacks". To accompany this, lay mine-fields between the turrets. We could also consider dumping our toxic waste in a moat-like pattern across the border to amplify the effect. A couple patrols would be in place to reload the turrets.

5) Get the Malitia groups (extreme NRA folk) and relocate them to border homes, with permission to kill anything that moves. (They'd orgasm the moment they got the opportunity)

6) Get Steve Irwin to relocate the most dangerous animals he can locate, to our beloved border.

7) Force the border-hoppers to read the Emarr boards over and over.

8) Recall all of our troops, lay down a 1 week assault on Canada, then turn around and tell Mexico and Cuba that if 1 more person hops the border, they're next.

9) Send the ones we catch to Falluja with "Fuck Allah" tattooed on their forehead. Video tape the impending executions and send it back to Mexico for greater effect.

10) Place a strict audit on companies to locate illegal immigrants. Fine said company 1 year's worth of Gross income per illegal immigrant found to be in their employ.

I'm sure I'll think of more later... >=)~
__________________
EQ: Lyllyth -- 70 Dark Elf Shadow Knight (Semi-inactive)
WoW: Lyllyth -- Night Elf Huntress, Uther
VenomsLust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 06:18 AM   #37
Hormadrune
Sociopathic bully?
 
Hormadrune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 11,895
I think he's a rotten douchebag 99 times out of 100, but if you get a chance you xenophobes should really check out Rupert Murdoch's recent speech "Let Us Give Thanks to Our Immigrants" transcribed in today's Wall Street Journal (on the editorials page), as he makes a few excellent points.

Originally Posted by NewsCorp's Rupert Murdoch
Frankly it doesn't bother me in the least that millions of people are attracted to our shores. What we should worry about is the day they no longer find these shores attractive.
__________________
WoW-Ghostlands-US: Prae | sp | Prolonix | Horm | Ulfhednar | l
EQ: Hormadrune <Retired> <OFS> <CoI> <Affy> <CE>
Hormadrune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 08:22 AM   #38
Kanjien
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami
Posts: 509
I have to say that for the most part I dont see illegal immigrants taking jobs from americans because I dont see most americans willing to do the work that the immigrants are willing to do. The cry about immigrants taking our jobs is a smoke screen for people too lazy to do a hard days work.
__________________
Kanjien Cheveyo
Knights of the Holy Storm
Kanjien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 08:45 AM   #39
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
Thats right Kanjen, so we are talking about keeping the immigrants already here and they can still work those same jobs. I dont see where it says we need a fresh batch of illegals to do those menial jobs over illegals who have been here for a while.
The big problem is the illegals who are overrunning our border patrol to get in and some of them are not mexicans, some of them are in al qaeda with possible dangerous weapons. this needs to stop. a moat is an extreme solution and not a perfect one, but it will stem the tide enough so that its not as big a problem and if done right can save us billions in dollars that would be spent in extra manpower to patrol the borders.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 10:40 AM   #40
bumbleroot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,756
I understand your stance, but I don't think sending a few companies over there will fix their problem.
I didn't say to send companies over there. South America is rich in resources. They can develop their own companies. They don't have to take our jobs to do so. If we had a stronger trading block both them and us would be stronger. Our intent with NAFTA was to move towards a unified trading block to take on China and the Euros. We are failing to do this and because of that we are losing our access to the South American resources as well. Instead the other trading blocks are outdoing us. This is evident by the price of our dollar against their currency.
As an example, if South America develops more parts for use in automobiles, we could then build more automobiles to compete with European automobiles. This could be achieved easier. It gives them jobs, us jobs and creates more real money for both of us.


Arrest, prosecute, and sentence them to work as.... cheap labor.
Real rennaisance man there eh Shard? You advocate slavery- its that simple. I'm sure that would be a wise choice for us to do- capture Mexicans and enslave them. Nice thinking there buck-o!!!

You cons are pathetic. If anyone mentioned a moat around our country in any real discourse they would be laughed at as a nut. Yet you idiots believe it is a great idea. Next you idiots are mentioning enslaving Mexicans to resolve immigration. Nice going again. You guys never cease to amaze the rest of the world. Go back to third grade again and this time maybe try a little harder mmm-kay? Your ability to think is greatly lacking.
bumbleroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:22 PM   #41
ShardmoonVer.1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 7,457
Whats pathetic is your use of the word pathetic. How pathetic can a pathetic little prick be when he has to use the same pathetic word over and over again.

Pathetic.
__________________
If you don't have something good to say about some one, say it loud.
ShardmoonVer.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:27 PM   #42
korast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,846
Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1
Whats pathetic is your use of the word pathetic. How pathetic can a pathetic little prick be when he has to use the same pathetic word over and over again.

Pathetic.
Hypathetically speaking.
korast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:29 PM   #43
ShardmoonVer.1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 7,457
Oh, and there is a simple way for the Mexicans to avoid inprisonment, stay in Mexico. Obvious solutions for oblivious people like you Bumble.

The only slave here is you, dude. You are a slave to complaining. You are a slave to whining. You are a slave to ranting. What you arent a slave to is reason.
__________________
If you don't have something good to say about some one, say it loud.
ShardmoonVer.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:35 PM   #44
AresProphet
Priest of Hiroshima
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,932
Send a message via MSN to AresProphet
For one, Shard's idea to arrest, prosecute, and sentence them to labor is actually.... fine. If it's made a felony to illegally immigrate (which it may be), the Consitution allows for indentured servitude as punishment for a convicted crime. Then again, you actually have to catch them, put them through the courts ($), throw them into a prison ($), and hire federal employees to watch them (more $). Probably more expensive than to just let them through.

A moat would be a hpysical impossibility.

1. It'd have to be well over 1,000 miles long. You may point to the Great Wall of China and say it can be done, but digging is harder to do than building. Where does all the dirt go? And remember that thousands upon thousands may have died in the process of building the wall.

2. Water is scarce enough in the southwest. We could fill it with seawater, but the risk of contaminating groundwater supplies with salt would be fairly high.

3. It wouldn't be level. Like the Panama canal, it'd have locks.

Stupid idea. A wall would be just as ineffective as a 100-foot moat, yet a cheaper mistake to make. Physical barriers won't do it. Hell, they already are trekking through miles (in some cases) of the harshest terrain on the continent. You couldn't ask for a better natural barrier (besides an ocean).

I don't think it's a problem with a fix that easy to come up with. For one, the illegal immigrants do a lot of jobs. Get rid of them all and I really don't think the relatively small unemployment margin would cover it.

Especially considering a lot of the people unemployed nowadays aren't homeless. They wouldn't all jump at the chance to work at McDonalds, or shovel concrete for 12 hours a day.
__________________
One of the wonders of the world is going down
It's going down I know
It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares
No-one cares enough


Attachment 181
AresProphet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:46 PM   #45
Vireil
Disturbing the force
 
Vireil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 2,711
I agree that it's stupid, but it is possible
__________________
Vireil
Coercer
<Recovering>
Vireil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:56 PM   #46
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
1. It'd have to be well over 1,000 miles long. You may point to the Great Wall of China and say it can be done, but digging is harder to do than building. Where does all the dirt go? And remember that thousands upon thousands may have died in the process of building the wall.
The dirt goes on the sides creating a very high cliff wall so that you would have to scale down in order to reach the water, if you jump in you die. Digging a 1000 mile ditch is no big deal and would put a lot of illegals to work while keeping them from entering the country. Why would thousands of people die in making this?


2. Water is scarce enough in the southwest. We could fill it with seawater, but the risk of contaminating groundwater supplies with salt would be fairly high.

The dug areas would later be covered with cement becuase we need to prevent makeshift illegal immigrant tunnels and land erosion from the current. I dunno how many water supplies are on the US border that we drink from


3. It wouldn't be level. Like the Panama canal, it'd have locks.
I dont want it to be level. i want a strong current that if you jump in are swept away and killed or prevented from going further

Stupid idea. A wall would be just as ineffective as a 100-foot moat, yet a cheaper mistake to make. Physical barriers won't do it. Hell, they already are trekking through miles (in some cases) of the harshest terrain on the continent. You couldn't ask for a better natural barrier (besides an ocean).
A stretch of land can be driven across, a wall can be knocked down or climbed. Water can be swam or boated across but if you add a barrier(s) in the middle, you can then block the boats and if they try to climb over they wont be able to swim across becuase the water will be deep and the current strong. Doing nothing about this problem wont make it go away and just saying oh well if the open land doesnt stop them then lets all give up doesnt work either.
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 12:59 PM   #47
AresProphet
Priest of Hiroshima
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,932
Send a message via MSN to AresProphet
How many trillions of dollars do you want to spend on this?

How do you expect illegals to, efectively, dig their own graves?

Lots died building the Great Wall, because they were worked so hard. You wouldn't get a project like this done on 8-hour shifts in anything less than a hundred years.

You want a quick and practical solution? So does everyone. But it's not going to happen.

Especially with a fucking moat. I can't believe I'm even taking you seriously.

As usual.
__________________
One of the wonders of the world is going down
It's going down I know
It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares
No-one cares enough


Attachment 181
AresProphet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 01:02 PM   #48
chukzombi
The Undead Shaman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Bowels of Hell, A.K.A. New Jersey
Posts: 9,564
What trillions of dollars? its a hole in the ground, is cement expensive? paying illegals 4 or 5 bucks an hour gonna break the bank? please we build skyscrapers every day in NYC for under a billion bucks and it costs just as many materials and labor as a a 1000 mile ditch with some concrete poured along tghe side.


I dont care what you think about me or my ideas, why dont you take your useless posts about the Great Wall of China which added nothing to the conversation somewhere else? OMG a wall was built in china 3 thousands years ago and people died???????? omg that gonna happen now!!! kfeljwrpokfr3fr
__________________
Chukzombi Astrocreep
Magister (re-united)
chukzombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 01:11 PM   #49
Offem
Aiming to heal the world
 
Offem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: California now
Posts: 934
Send a message via AIM to Offem Send a message via Yahoo to Offem
If they want over here so badly, why not just do it legally? Why is that so hard to do? Because they are lazy? Because they think he grass is so much greener here? (It is) I hope that getting caught being an ILLEGAL immigrant does become a felony offense. ILLEGALS should not be treated with any special priviledges whatsoever. If they want to be here, they need to earn that right. that's what I said, that RIGHT. This country is the land of opportunity...for it's own people, and for those who immigrate LEGALLY. If you don't agree with that, then maybe you need to re-evaluate where you stand, plain and simple.

***EDIT*** One more thing...if they want to earn our money, then it needs to be put back into our economy just the same, not sent back to Mexico or whever for that matter to their families. That's one of the biggest problems we have with our economy...losing money, ILLEGALLY, because it's done by ILLEGALS. (some legals too, i'm sure, but I'm sure the numbers are dramatically different and higher with the illegals).
__________________
Offem Onncampus - 66 Cleric <Shadow Killers>


fav quotes:

You typing in caps just makes me laugh thinking you're stomping your feet saying "mom, they're doing it again". - Oakinbier

Beware, the gays are coming! The gays are coming! - Gauche

In America, death is the most common way that people legally die - Random Article

Last edited by Offem; 11-24-2004 at 01:22 PM.
Offem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2004, 01:13 PM   #50
AresProphet
Priest of Hiroshima
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,932
Send a message via MSN to AresProphet
You don't understand the concept of comparison.

Massive prjects like that are absolute bitches to build. Even a ditch is tough. Let's do some math.

Ditch is 1,000 miles long, 100 feet wide, 100 feet deep. That's about 53 trillion cubic feet of dirt.

You can't just deposit that dirt as a big wall that's 100 feet thick and 100 feet tall along the length, Dirt doesn't sit like that. If we assume that (and here the math gets tricky; reach back to 11th grade, Chuk) the dirt has to sit at a 45 degree angle on both sides in order to be stable, you don't get an effective cliff. In fact, you'd have to set aside 200 feet along the length of the ditch to have the same volume of dirt reach a height of 100 feet. All you do then is make a nice barrier from view for people to hide behind; or, if you put it on your side, you make it really hard to access the ditch.


You also assume the illegals would build such a ditch. Why would they do that? They already have jobs flipping burgers or landscaping rich peoples' yards.
__________________
One of the wonders of the world is going down
It's going down I know
It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares
No-one cares enough


Attachment 181
AresProphet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.