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Old 08-14-2004, 12:33 AM   #26
Araya LeBon
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
You walked into 3 WC schools and thought you knew which taught "correctly"?
No I knew which school taught WC correctly because I talked to the teachers at the schools and inquired into their teaching methods. I have spent time researching, talking, and writing letters to a lot of people(back before the internet was even part of everyday life) involved in mostly the Shaolin styles when I was searching for a school, and I tried to make it to every guest instructor's class I could at my old kung fu class. My teacher lived and trained under many different teachers in many different styles in China and so was fortunate enough to be able to bring in a lot of guests to speak on traditional training methods, etc.

I don't consider myself an expert but I know the smell of bullshit, and your dogmatic and completely narrowminded defense of whatever version of JKD you were taught is steenky, steenky bullshit...

If you honestly believe that most schools in the US are teaching traditional styles as they were originally developed then you are a retard. Simple as that. Just about every school here is "Americanized" Wushu...sped up and stripped down. Bruce Lee, as I'm sure you know, was actually one of the first proponents of doing exactly that. Whether it is a good or bad thing is up to you, it all depends on what you want to get out of training...but if you are wanting to learn TRADITIONAL Kung Fu, you are going to have a tough time finding a school that is close to doing that. Traditional Kung Fu is a lifetime commitment, and not the race to score a black sash in under 4 years as it generally is treated as here in America.

Martial arts is not something you read up on the internet and start judging with "this one is soft so sucks" and "this one is hard so good!" If you want to learn a particular art you have to walk into it with an open mind. Not with silly ideas you think you know because someone gave you their opinion.
I never once said that soft styles suck. Save the taking quotes out of context and argument stifling tactics for the neocon tards on this board. I simply said that the training for a soft style was too monotonous and far too large a time commitment for me as a stupid American. I didn't have 3 years to spend practicing forms before I ever even got to see a sparring match, which is how a lot of traditional Chinese Wushu is taught, despite what you have seen in schools geared toward, once again: stupid Americans. I settled for a pretty happy medium. We were taught the forms very slowly, but after the first year I was sparring and doing some full contact matches on testing nights.

In traditional Kung Fu, it's about the forms. Kung Fu is an ART, and the FORMS are the art itself...the self defense aspects were treated as secondary in more than a few styles. "Forms first, fight later." I heard that phrase about a million times my first half year or so of classes.

While we are here, there is no "best" martial art. If there were then everyone would be flocking to learn it. ANY martial art is good if it builds you up as a person and you can walk down the street with self-confidence.
Once again don't attribute a bunch of trash that never got said to me.

At any rate, Wing Chun has never been considered by anyone to be a fully external style. Good site for history, etc. and a good description of what WC actually is:

http://www.wingchun.com/Ken_article.html

Concerning speed, what you are saying is rubish. Techniques are first shown and taught to students slowly so they can understand the movements. Students are encouraged to speed up their movements once they have good control.
Where exactly did you hear this from? Your instructor, who more than likely teaches Americanized martial arts? Sorry. That's just uninformed.

"Traditional" WC doesn't refer to the speed of training. It refers to the core techniques being trained. Non-Traditional WC styles (including JKD)
JKD is not even considered to be a non-traditional WC style. Sorry. Doesn't look like WC. Doesn't act like WC. Not WC.

have dropped much of traditional WC's foot work, for example, and adopted Muay Thai foot work, or even foot work from Escrima. The same can be said about striking. Non-Tradition WC relies heavily upon modern boxing techniques and has dropped the traditional striking found in WC (punching, using a parrel fist striking against all four knuckles, finger strikes, and palm strikes). That's not to say you won't still find non-traditional schools that have kept bits and pieces of the traditional striking.
/yawn

I read Bruce's book too. You aren't describing Wing Chun, you are describing JKD or some Americanized hybrid.
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Old 08-14-2004, 10:26 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Araya LeBon
I don't consider myself an expert but I know the smell of bullshit, and your dogmatic and completely narrowminded defense of whatever version of JKD you were taught is steenky, steenky bullshit....

The only person being dogmatic here is you, and you have pretty much proven what an idiot you are. Just take another read through your highly biased closed minded post again. Yeah, you did some reading and admit you aren't an "expert" and guess what? You're likely not even a martial artist, too.

Go back to reading your past issues of Black Belt magazine and pat yourself on the head for being a good dumb shit.

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Old 08-14-2004, 02:57 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Yeah, you did some reading and admit you aren't an "expert" and guess what? You're likely not even a martial artist, too.
Funny, I've been suspecting the exact same thing about you. At any rate, I gave the names of my instructors and their locations, though it has been about 10 years since I stopped going. If Mr. Norman doesn't remember me just mention the guy from Dominus(my old band) with the really long black hair.
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Old 08-14-2004, 06:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Araya LeBon
Funny,
Why yes you are, but not in a comical way.

Your problem Araya is one with reading skillz. For instance, take this exchange...

Originally Posted by Araya LeBon
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
"Traditional" WC doesn't refer to the speed of training. It refers to the core techniques being trained. Non-Traditional WC styles (including JKD)
JKD is not even considered to be a non-traditional WC style. Sorry. Doesn't look like WC. Doesn't act like WC. Not WC.

..:: Quote ::..
If you can't understand that "including JKD" refers to "the speed of training" (the point being raised), then you are not reading proficient. You repeat such mistakes throughout your response.

Another mistake you made...

Originally Posted by Araya LeBon
If you honestly believe that most schools in the US are teaching traditional styles as they were originally developed then you are a retard.
The retard is you which is evident by your statement. I never made such a claim and it is quite obvious to me that you don't understand how "traditional" is used in many martial arts circles. I'll give you a hint, it isn't used as a synonym for "original".

Also, your complaint, "Just about every school here is 'Americanized' Wushu...sped up and stripped down" is not necessarily true. I have the benefit of living in Seattle and there are many schools founded on the "old ways" of their respective arts. For example, when I was taking Baqua Chang I had to learn "walking the circle" for two years before my teacher would begin to show me basic postures to use. Another master here in Seattle who teaches Southern Hung-gar doesn't use the Karate ranking system (as many "Amercianized schools" do) and students must learn the basics for as long as five years before being promoted to senior brother or senior sister rankings. I could go on and on with examples. You are simply closeted with your past issues of Black Belt magazine and you think you are an "expert" because you have some book knowledge.

Finally, I want to speak to another mistake of yours (there are far too many to waste my time over, but this one is certainly deserving of comment)...

Originally Posted by Araya LeBon
At any rate, Wing Chun has never been considered by anyone to be a fully external style.
If you were carefull in your reading you will have noted that I made no such claim. However, again this shows that you are a "book learned" fellow and haven't had much experience. Even Karate has its "soft" elements.

The fact is that you made a mistake trying to identify WC as solely a "soft art" which demonstrates you are very ignorant with regard to WC styles and its derivatives. I guess it is a good time for you to look up another web site to learn something. Perhaps you should do a search on Augustine Fong.
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Old 08-15-2004, 04:58 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Your problem Araya is one with reading skillz. For instance, take this exchange...
I think the only logical conclusion to this ridiculously circular argument in which you fail to actually address a thing I've said and accuse me of doing the same is for you to come to Columbus, OH and battle me and my Five Fingers of Fury...I will prove to you then that your Kung Fu is no good.
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:20 AM   #31
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I can see the "battle" now.
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Old 08-15-2004, 10:35 PM   #32
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LOL more like a scene from Adam West's Batman. Oh and let's not forget Araya used to beat up some kid in highschool so he gets a slight advantage.
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Old 08-16-2004, 01:33 AM   #33
Araya LeBon
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Originally Posted by Vireil
I can see the "battle" now.
Nuh uh...just because I dress like a catholic school girl sometimes does not make me a sissy.



Originally Posted by Xerion
I liked you better when you weren't posting in my thread.
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Old 08-16-2004, 02:00 AM   #34
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If you really want self defense training I suggest Chung/Jong Moo Doe. At least you'll
have a chance at walking away in one piece.

Ask Ogmuk about the pic I sent him of me. My father even say's my knuckles
are deformed. Little did he know untill I showed what the Iron fist is capable of.

Don't waste your time joining a school unless you find a capable instructor
that won't rip you off. The only respect they deserve is the respect they offer.
And money should not be an issue. Some schools will quote and then 2-months later
call you into the office and demand more money for the advanced training they
should have been teaching you in the first place. BAH!

Just buy a book and train yourself. Use a dummy to beat on if you have too.



God Bless America
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