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Old 05-21-2003, 07:08 AM   #26
Razboinik
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Rashim...dont sweat Razboinik, He's just a dickhead that doesnt understand you are asking a question about the warrior class play at higher levels.. so you'll have to pardon his arrogance and asshole tendancies.
First off, who the fuck are you?

Second - No shit, genious, I never claimed to be nice, mofucker.
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Old 05-21-2003, 07:20 AM   #27
chukzombi
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***P.S. Just because you suck doesn't mean everyone else does. Get some aa's, ***

Hah coming from a person with 125 AA .
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Old 05-21-2003, 08:04 AM   #28
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Does it matter how many aa's I have?
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Old 05-21-2003, 08:14 AM   #29
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I think Raz ate a healthy breakfast of "Carnation Instant Bitch" today.
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Old 05-21-2003, 08:23 AM   #30
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Korinn,

According to Chuk, you can't speak here or give advice. You have only 50 AA's.
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Old 05-21-2003, 09:15 AM   #31
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Korinn didnt tell somebody they sucked .
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Old 05-21-2003, 09:32 AM   #32
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Default getting agro

I want to throw something out that seems to work well for me that noone has mentioned here.

One of the things I have found helps with agro, is to be one of the first to hit the mob. The best way of course is to be the puller, however in many situations this is not the best idea as you need a monk to split or a ranger to harmo etc. Now since I can not always be the puller I found that using my bow I can make sure I get a hit or two in on the mob before he reaches the camp.

What I do is assist the puller as he is bringing in the mob and shoot off as many arrows as I can before it gets too close. Remember agro is all about where you are on the hate list. If you can be the first to do dmg or engage the mob you get a jump on getting and maintaining agro. This of course requires you to be alert and jump on the mob as soon as possible.

Will this make you an agro magnet that holds agro all the time? No of course not. After the mob is in camp your haste, weapons, and the intellegence of your group will determine how it goes from there. This is just a little tip that I have found helps me get a jump on things and get me on the list building agro asap.

Now if you do what you can and the pally is stunning the mob right off the bat or the slower is slowing as soon as the mob is in camp. I am with the rest that say let the thing beat on them a bit until they figure out that agroing the mob too fast is a bad idea. The group should work together not against each other.

As you level you will aquire better gear and more AAs and your taunting will improve but until then I hope this little tip will be helpful in getting you agro and keeping it.

Words from the old dorf

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Old 05-21-2003, 11:46 AM   #33
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Korinn didnt tell somebody they sucked .
True, but granted that is Raz's way of saying...
Dude, you seriously need to upgrade your gear. What you said is just stating about you, SK/Pal can out aggro you, not every warrior, and that's not the way warriors are designed by the dev's. You just lack in gear, and it brings you down, that and your 57.

Just work the levels, the AA's, a bit on upgrades and you'll be good to go. Your just behind the curve of EQ a little, a bit of work will fix it.
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Old 05-21-2003, 12:25 PM   #34
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I use my 2 handed Epic and have an SBC for haste.. make sure the haste caster in the group keeps you hasted.. if the ranger/rogue is hasted and you aren't.. it's gonna be tough to hold aggro.

With that setup I almost neve have aggro taken from me.. even by people who want it. I have no offensive AA's (only combat stability so far and of course the obligatory natural regen 3 and run speed 3) and frequently group with high taunters (last night in the castle in PoD, we had a 61 SK, a 61 Mage, 60something shaman, high 50's enchanter, cleric and me) and rarely do they get aggro (course.. the chanter did when he tried really hard ) The SK was pulling with darkness.. and I was tagging off him when he got 2 or more of the level 60 mobs.. otherwise I'd let him pull in then I'd take them right off him.. weapon didn't even have to proc and I managed to keep aggro.. I think it's mainly that you need to learn how to use that taunt button
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Old 05-21-2003, 12:30 PM   #35
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From what I've experienced in PoP when XPing, it is usually preferred for a Paladin ot SK to MT a mob for two reasons. First is what was already mentioned above, Paladins and SKs can get and hold aggro early on with the use of stuns, aggro spells, etc. Another good reason, though, which myself and the rest of my group tested in PoN, is that a warrior will do even better damage from the rear of the mob, a la Rogue, than the Paladin/SK will.

From that perspective alone it is a good idea in some situations to let that hybrid absorb some damage while the warrior sinks his blades into the mobs back. Now, I said some situations, because there really are times that the warrior is who you WANT to be the MT, based solely on HP's/AC, or even resists.

In that situation, the warrior being the MT, it is the responsibility of the hybrids in the group, if any, to NOT take or attempt to take aggro. I actually physically move my taunt and stun hotkeys off my front page to prevent myself from hitting them. When looked at from this perspective, we can also see that your problem, Rashim, might just be the people you are grouping with, rather than your items/equipment.
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:02 PM   #36
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Gear matters. However, it doesn't matter as much as knowing how to properly utilize the "taunt" skill.

Remember, "taunt" isn't like a proc or other agro inducing effect. It doesn't "add agro" the same way, say, an Enraging Blow proc, or DD nuke does.

Spells, damage and procs all add an amount of numeric agro. The agro list is sorted by this number, modified by distance to the mob and player health. The person at the top will be the one the mob attacks.

The taunt skill, when successful, directly modifies the "agro number" of the warrior to be one higher than the person at the top of the list. If the warrior is already at the top of the list, it does NOTHING.

(When I refer to agro number, I'm talking about the un-modified number, before distance and health is taken into account)

This is why it's almost always a bad idea to "mash" the taunt button whenever it pops up.

It is especially bad to hit it as soon as the mob is in camp.

Generally, unless the puller is using some super high agro spell to pull, my "normal" melee damage is enough to pull the mob off the puller and get it on me.

After that, the slower is going to go to work, and they WILL get agro unless they wait a long time. That's fine. In fact, you WANT them to get agro.

Now, if you are on the ball, you'll have positioned the mob such that it's BACK is to the slower, and it's close enough to the slower that it only has to TURN and take a whack at the slower, it DOESN'T have turn and RUN to the slower. This positioning is key, and you should educate your casters in XP groups to work with you to maintain this positioning.

Now, the slower casts slow, the mob turns and swings at the slower. You can SEE the mob turn, and since you didn't hit taunt yet, it's available to use at that instant, so you hit taunt.

If it succeeds, the mob turns back on you, and you've just used "leapfrog" agro to put yourself extremely high on the agro list. You most likely will not have to taunt the rest of the fight, bucause you just got all the agro from the slow + 1.

If it fails, the mob will be beating on the slower for a few seconds till taunt refreshes. This can be bad, but usually isn't, especially if the slower keeps his head and doesn't start running around. If the slow wasn't resisted, even the wimpiest caster can tank the mob long enough for you te re-taunt. If it was resisted, you may need to resort to AoE taunt (which never fails)

I like using enchanters as slowers in XP groups because they have a whole line of nice self only damage absorption shields that allow them to take a bit of a beating while I taunt.

I've found that usually taunt will work, but as all things random in EQ, I sometimes get streaks of failures and have to use AoE taunt when the enchies rune has been burned through and 4 taunts in a row have failed

Really, the point here is to get your group to position themselves in such a way that when they draw agro, it is immediately obvious (the MOB turns to face them) and the MOB doesn't move out of range of your taunt.

Learn to resist the urge to just mash the taunt button. Save it for when the mob is agro'ed on someone else, and you'll find that you can keep agro very easily no matter what weapons you have, except in extremely unbalanced situations.

If there is a melee in your group who's weapons are significantly better than yours, and they keep pulling agro throughout the fight, chances are, the rest of their gear is also better, and it might be best to swallow pride and let them be the MA. Frankly, I look forward to groups like that, because it's nice to not have to be the MA all the time.
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:10 PM   #37
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What Bumamgar has described is pretty much the way to do it. Only thing I can add is that I make a /shield hotkey assigned to the slower. If for some reason after slow my taunt fails then I immediately hit the /shield hotkey and it will help keep the sham/ench alive long enough for taunt to refresh.
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:13 PM   #38
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Not only did raz prove how much of an dickhead he is with his first post, looks like he felt he needed to back it up with another post.
He also showed his master spelling abilities and if im correct, raz will probably make another post because he is far too stupid to know any better.

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Old 05-21-2003, 01:26 PM   #39
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There's really no reason to 'save' taunt like you desribed. It's not a precious commodity and will not run out. Also having mob turn on slower and beat on them is bad in every way. Especially if said mob hits in 700+ range and slow gets resisted - this is where slower would die within 2-3 seconds. Yes you are right that taunt is aggro from person highest on aggro list+1, however that doesn't mean that by not hitting taunt you will save it for the moment when you can get the most out of it. Because, guess what, it only works 1 out of 3 times, or 1 out of 2 when you get lucky. So the best strategy is to have high aggro proc like EB coupled with high atk buff (like avatar), lots of offensive aa's and max haste. With all this you will only need taunt for mez breaks and if you choose to save that overnuking bastard wizzy.

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Old 05-21-2003, 01:27 PM   #40
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nt
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:29 PM   #41
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Originally posted by Lanson & Binuru
From what I've experienced in PoP when XPing, it is usually preferred for a Paladin ot SK to MT a mob for two reasons. First is what was already mentioned above, Paladins and SKs can get and hold aggro early on with the use of stuns, aggro spells, etc. Another good reason, though, which myself and the rest of my group tested in PoN, is that a warrior will do even better damage from the rear of the mob, a la Rogue, than the Paladin/SK will.

From that perspective alone it is a good idea in some situations to let that hybrid absorb some damage while the warrior sinks his blades into the mobs back. Now, I said some situations, because there really are times that the warrior is who you WANT to be the MT, based solely on HP's/AC, or even resists.

In that situation, the warrior being the MT, it is the responsibility of the hybrids in the group, if any, to NOT take or attempt to take aggro. I actually physically move my taunt and stun hotkeys off my front page to prevent myself from hitting them. When looked at from this perspective, we can also see that your problem, Rashim, might just be the people you are grouping with, rather than your items/equipment.
heh I never have a problem getting groups in PoP.. in fact.. I was amazed at how easily I get them.. I come online.. type /lfg on and usually within minutes I get a tell saying "come to x" or "are you flagged for Y??" unfortunately I have no flags.. as all my friends are either lower level.. or in uberguilds and too busy for me if I had tier 2 flags I am pretty sure I wouldn't be without a group for more than 10 minutes at any point in time

I have actually left a couple groups that, when I left, refused a SK/Pal as a replacement (course they were hard hitting mobs.. like the guardians or nightmares in PoN)

Warriors are still wanted.. if you aren't then maybe you need to work on your own skills and this is a good start by coming and asking for help here
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:31 PM   #42
Bumamgar
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Originally posted by Razboinik
So the best strategy is to have high aggro proc like EB coupled with high atk buff (like avatar), lots of offensive aa's and max haste. With all this you will only need taunt for mez breaks and if you choose to save that overnuking bastard wizzy.
Aye, and the rest of us mere mortals who have < 30 aa, and no access to EB weapons, will have to simply know how to use taunt effectively.

I agree with you, however, once I get EB weapons and 100+ AA, I'll most likely never need to hit my taunt key again. Till then, however, I'm glad I know how to use it properly.
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:35 PM   #43
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Well, according to Chuck, you are not even supposed to be posting here without having at least as many aa's as he does. :eek:
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:40 PM   #44
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The dumbass is strong in this one.
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Old 05-21-2003, 01:51 PM   #45
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Chuck, you are wasting time you could be spending collecting useless information about EQ uber guilds on Safehouse, nerdboy.

P.S. Work harder next time, bitches, you are only keeping me moderately entertained.
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Old 05-21-2003, 05:30 PM   #46
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Default lol

rofl!

[q]The dumbass is strong in this one[/q]

I think that's the first Star Wars joke I've ever laughed at.

/applaud

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Old 05-21-2003, 09:49 PM   #47
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the pally/sk strength lies in "snap agro". being able to have complete agro on a mob before it even gets into camp.

keeping agro is another story. i dunno if it's been proven, but it appears to me hate decays, and dual weilding, EB, kick etc are all ways of keeping hate from decaying. 2 handers are generally slower, thus not adding much hate, not counting procs.

the MA in my guild dual weilds EB weapons, agro control is the least of his problems. one thing that might help, is find a weapon that procs a stun...i can't think of any warrior weapons off the top of my head that proc a stun, but stuns generate a metric fuckton of agro, espically on weapon procs.
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Old 05-22-2003, 02:08 AM   #48
Adom Wraithbane
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My opinion

It's not the warriors problem with keeping taunt. It's all about the supporting class. Paladin's job is not to keep taunt while in a group, thats why the warrior is there. So why are you casting taunt increasing spells? AC is key, no this is not Armor Class, this is Agro Control. You, the supporting classes, need to learn what to do and when to do it to make your groups more efficient. If you are the Main tank of a group, then that's different. Over agro and now the cleric has more then one person to worry about. Oh, and a Beastlord can take agro from a pal/sk any day so don't think that your all that either. If you get agro when their is a MA designated, learn to back off a little. It might take an extra second for the mob to die, but eventually there would be less downtime for the entire group.

If supporting classes did their jobs, the Warrior wouldn't have agro issues, even swinging rusty weapons. The main purpose for the warrior was to be the only one to get hit during fights, so cleric(s) concentrate on healing one person and not several. Reason being was because the Warrior in most situations had more hp then the other classes. Since then with all the new armor that has come out, Paladins and Shadowknights are meeting or exceeding warriors in HP / AC.

You also can't compare a Paladin from Magister to a warrior thats never been guilded or ever been on raids. Definately that Paladin will have better gear then that warrior will ever see. You guys aways fail to see that sometimes. "you wisper to yourself, got this tank sucks, can't hold his agro" maybe because your over agroing due to better equipment or casting more then you should.

Just something that all those never played a warrior class should know about.
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Old 05-22-2003, 04:40 AM   #49
Submina Dominatri
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http://www.magelo.com/eq_item_info.html?num=7822

was such a good stun proccing sword! until the stupid resist aggro nerf, bastards killed my baby
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:38 PM   #50
Ariakkas
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Oh, and a Beastlord can take agro from a pal/sk any day so don't think that your all that either.

that made me laugh....shows you haven't lost it adom...


just about every class CAN get agro over a war/pal/sk. a necro/shaman stacking dots, a wizzie overnuking, you name it...sure a beastlord can pull agro off us, point is....WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO?
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