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Old 03-09-2006, 09:40 AM   #1
Scalz
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Default Parenting Rights

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...TYLE/603090385

Hmm, have to word this carefully so this is not taken out of context. This guy is bringing forth an interesting perspective on parenting rights. Specifically men's rights in regards to taking care of an unwanted child.

I would like to take this one step further though (because I do not necessarily agree with what he is trying to do). However, what if a man wants to keep the child, but the women does not want to go through the pregnancy and decided to abort the child?

Should precedence be set for the rights of men in these decisions?

I have seen both sides of this occur. I have seen a woman that is pregnant that has had to deal with raising the child on her own, because the father does not want to take responsibility. Due to the same reasons as stated in the article.

I have also seen a woman abort a child, where the father had no knowledge or did not agree with the womans decision to do so.
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:47 AM   #2
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I think I agree with the premise behind the lawsuit. There would need to be a mechanism by which a father stated he did not want the child though, to prevent people from doing it after the fact as revenge for a breakup etc, etc. So while I agree with the principles, I don't see it happening- it's too complicated to legislate effectively. And dad's who don't want to support their children aren't exactly sympathetic figures usually- so I don't see many congresspeople at the state or federal level championing this guy's cause
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:33 AM   #3
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I also agree with the intent here, but can't conceive of a practical way that they could legislate it. What, do you sign a no-responsibility clause with a woman before you can get busy?

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Old 03-09-2006, 10:45 AM   #4
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Classic double standard.
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Old 03-09-2006, 11:10 AM   #5
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I totally support this guy.
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:12 PM   #6
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This was a poll given with comments added from the Detroit News.

http://info.detnews.com/feedback/let...orum=dnletters
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by zzapp the witch
I totally support this guy.
While it's not an entirely fair outcome, it IS appropriate.
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:46 PM   #8
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I've seen women do it on purpose. I agree with what one of the posters said, perhaps if there was an uncertainty about it before the act, it would prevent this kind of situation.

If this doesn't pan out, I'd wish he could get her for fraud or something.
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Old 03-09-2006, 03:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Scalz
This was a poll given with comments added from the Detroit News.

http://info.detnews.com/feedback/let...orum=dnletters
Comedy gold:

Posted: Thu. 03/9/06 05:40 PM
From: Greg
City: Canton, MI USA
Subject: Unwilling_fathers
Comments: Guys---The fallopian tubes and the esophagus are not connected.
Posted: Thu. 03/9/06 01:27 PM
From: Val
City: Sterling Heights, USA
Subject: Unwilling_fathers
Comments: Women lie. Men lie. Condoms are 99% effective.
I found this one hilarious:
Posted: Thu. 03/9/06 09:17 AM
From: Witch King
City: Angmar, MI USA
Subject: Unwilling_fathers
Comments: The words WOMEN and RIGHTS really mix like oil and water don't they?
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Scalz
I would like to take this one step further though (because I do not necessarily agree with what he is trying to do). However, what if a man wants to keep the child, but the women does not want to go through the pregnancy and decided to abort the child?
The only problem with this is....as the laws stand now, neither parent can absolve their obligation. If the woman doesn't want the child, and carries thru with the pregnancy, to give it to the father, nothing is to stop him from making her remain in the childs life. Of course, this is the same for men.

If a woman doesn't want a child, the only sure way it to get rid of it (either abortion or adoption) without the father knowing.

Do I agree with this...of course not, a resounding NO. I agree with the intent of this case. Men should have more say in the children that they help produce, whether it be to have, or not to have. It should be an 'opt out' instead of 'opt in'. And he would have to make his intent known within a certain amount of time of being informed. That gives the mother time to decide what she will do, if he does not want the responsibility.

Having said that, I think men should take more active roles in preventing the pregnancy. I'm sorry, but if you didn't want kids, would you take some vague medical excuse for her not being able to have them? I wouldn't, unless I'm given exact reason, and proof, I'm protecting myself. Of course, that doesn't help with the women who *forgets* to take her pill.
I think science needs to start looking harder at birth control for men (besides the condom). It has fallen in the woman's lap to bear the burden (and the health consequences) of birth control. It would help men to, they can take control of their own reproductive lives, and not be burdened with an unwanted child brought about by the women's mistakes with her birth control (either accidental, or intentional).
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Old 03-10-2006, 03:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Giliani
I think science needs to start looking harder at birth control for men (besides the condom). It has fallen in the woman's lap to bear the burden (and the health consequences) of birth control.
Sounds like a Toni Weschler fan, there.

And I do think fathers should have more rights, but I'm not sure how to go about legislating it. Yes, he participates in the conception and the child is biologically his. But the mother has a much bigger role in the process. When it comes to whether to abort or not to abort, how do you manage that? If the man's got equal rights, should he be able to force the mother to abort or keep the baby based on his wishes?

In spirit, I'd say fathers deserve to have that kind of input, but whether or not it's feasible is a different story.
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
Sounds like a Toni Weschler fan, there.
Because I'm too lazy to look it up right now....who is Toni Weschler?

Nevermind, I found time to look it up

Last edited by Giliani; 03-10-2006 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:13 AM   #13
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Just for the sake of argument, how about the statement that "with reproductive rights comes reproductive responsibility". If the female insists on keeping the child against the father's wishes, he forfeits all parental rights and she is solely responsibly to care and raise it.

Shouldn't play with fire if you don't want to get burned.

Yeah, I know this doesn't take into account deadbeat dads and the "it takes two to tango" arguments.
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Old 03-10-2006, 07:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
Sounds like a Toni Weschler fan, there.

And I do think fathers should have more rights, but I'm not sure how to go about legislating it. Yes, he participates in the conception and the child is biologically his. But the mother has a much bigger role in the process. When it comes to whether to abort or not to abort, how do you manage that? If the man's got equal rights, should he be able to force the mother to abort or keep the baby based on his wishes?

In spirit, I'd say fathers deserve to have that kind of input, but whether or not it's feasible is a different story.
How can someone with equal rights force someone else to do something?
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:38 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Giliani
I think science needs to start looking harder at birth control for men (besides the condom). It has fallen in the woman's lap to bear the burden (and the health consequences) of birth control. It would help men to, they can take control of their own reproductive lives, and not be burdened with an unwanted child brought about by the women's mistakes with her birth control (either accidental, or intentional).
I disagree. If it's solely a woman's decision to decide the fate of the unborn (carry it or abort it) then yea...birth control SHOULD fall more upon a woman's shoulders then a man's. Now if the fate of the child is ever considered an equal responsibility of both the man and the woman, then yes - equal responsibility for family planning and birth control for both men and women.

Women WANTED this - they got it. I personally think the whole "my body" concept goes out the window when they allow a man to penetrate their body, literally going inside that body, and depositing fluids from the man's body into theirs. You allowed someone in, now you have someone else in. (this obviously does not include the rape and incest victims).

Abortion for birth control is just the most asanine thing I can imagine. It's like being handed an "out" for overdosing on drugs - doing the deed and not having to suffer an consequence.

Back in the 80s (showing my age here) there was the big arguement of how abortions affect a woman mentally. While I am sure it still does today - notice how quiet that arguement has gotten? I literally know women that have had multiple abortions - it just doesn't affect them as much today as it did. They don't suffer! There is NO consequence for most women these days to be careless.

So again, to repeat and conclude, they wanted the full right to do with as their bodies as they pleased and they got it. Now they can accept the brunt of responsibility for birth control.
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:45 AM   #16
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I find certain people's thirst for dire consequences fascinating. What's it like going through life so angry?
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Old 03-10-2006, 04:15 PM   #17
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So allowing a life to come into the world is dire BUT killing an unborn baby because you were careless is responsible?

LOL yep the world is going to hell and people wonder why....... must be the Presidents fault it sure wouldn't be our own.
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Old 03-10-2006, 08:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I find certain people's thirst for dire consequences fascinating. What's it like going through life so angry?
I guess this includes me?

I do wish people would think before they act, instead of running headlong into whatever action feels good at the time. It's one thing to whine and complain to anyone that will listen about how fucked up your life is and how it's someone else's fault, but forcing someone else to pay for your bad decisions seems like the ultimate in irresponsibility to me.

I'm not angry about it. I just don't have any sympathy for the people that land themselves in hot water because they can't control their hormones.
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:29 AM   #19
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Responsibility is a hard word for people to grasp in todays world Brig, it seems that they want to twist the meaning of the word to suit their beliefs (just like every other situation it seems).
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:57 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
forcing someone else to pay for your bad decisions
Isn't that welfare?
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Axgar
Responsibility is a hard word for people to grasp in todays world Brig
Horm knows better, he's just being difficult.
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