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#176 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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Meh, if they outlaw abortion, women will just go back to the old ways. Smart women will do it the right way.
A woman who is determined to terminate a pregnancy will not be stopped, I'm sure most of you can agree on that.
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#177 |
Registered User
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Or they might choose to behave more responsibly and prevent the problem in the first place. Ya never can tell.
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Meh. |
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#178 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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So I guess getting pregnant while on birth control is irresponsible to you? Or while using a condom? etc? How would you propose to fix that situation?
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#179 |
Registered User
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If having sex can lead to pregnancy and you don't want to get pregnant and you can't be sure that birth control will work for you...
...duh?
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Meh. |
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#180 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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So, do you want more kids?
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#181 |
Registered User
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I don't have kids, but yeah, I want kids someday.
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Meh. |
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#182 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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So when you're done having kids, I take it you and your man won't have sex ever again in your relationship?
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#183 |
Registered User
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Uh, no. We'll do what's reasonable to ensure that we don't get pregnant again, but not to the point of aborting a pregnancy to avoid having a child.
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Meh. |
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#184 |
Squawk Box
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ini is the wind beneath my wings.
Posts: 7,988
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Originally Posted by zzapp the witch
get yer friggen tubes tied or something.
DUH!
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Davek Bonemender ~ Guild Leader of Sunrunners ~ ~ Retired with 8 years of service ~ ~ Semi-unretired 2012 ~ Man that just rolls off the tongue nicely. |
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#185 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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Duh, nothing. Our local pharmacist and his wife never wanted kids. She had her tubes tied. Well, here comes number one....tubes tied again....number two...tubes tied yet again....number three....she got a tubal ligation.
So you can't tell me that that is better than birth control.
Originally Posted by Brigiid
So, you admit that even you are going to be irresponsible enough to have sex even though you might not want a child at that time?
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#186 |
Registered User
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I wonder how many people accidentally get pregnant while practicing abstinence...
Hrm.
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Meh. |
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#187 |
Registered User
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Originally Posted by Zzapp
Yes, yes I will be irresponsible enough to have sex even though I might not want a child at the time. Your point?
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Meh. |
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#188 |
RSS Feed
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 20,628
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Originally Posted by zzapp the witch
I love how you turn an anecdote into facts in your head... For every 1 story of tubal ligation failing, I'll bet I can find 100+ of birth control pills failing, rubbers breaking, or pulling out failing. So yeah, I can tell you that it's better than most other forms of birth control, mutants excluded.
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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#189 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 6,910
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Actually it's not THAT uncommon. Some newlywed friends of mine also got pregnant while on the pill. They were making what would be considered a reasonable effort to not get pregnant. Of course they are having the baby, not aborting it. The point is that it is true, abstinance is the only sure fire way to not get pregnant, but is that reasonable to ask of people? I suppose the answer to that varies by person.
At the very least, you are arguing against what many on the boards have labeled as a "natural" desire are you not? I would also point out that although I intensly dislike the idea of people suggesting gays should fight thier desires (because I consider them jsut as natural), I DO respect someone who is willing to fight thier own desires, and cannot fault them for asking others to do what they themselves do. I would not argue with thier consistancy. I would, however ask if that was a feasible solution to this problem? Yes, theoretically abstinance would be ideal, but is this something we can reasonably expect from people? If not, do we give up or try to find a solution that will actually be effective, if not perfect? I don't like the idea of abortions, but I will not presume to pass a blanket judgement on all cases, to which I am not privvy to details. In he absence of facts, my default preference is the one with the most options.
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Once is an anomoly, twice is a statistic, three times is the imminent takeover of the Devil. -Kulani |
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#190 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,762
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
Sorry, don't like the idea of just formed clump of cells being given human rights...especially when its inside a real living human being.
Originally Posted by Brigiid
Not fully developed. I've heard the brain stem isn't fully formed till 6 months. Of course, I've seen other reports that say brain waves start at 8 weeks. *sigh* We need a damn definitive unbiased study.
Originally Posted by Brigiid
Thank God someone agrees with me! They current situation where women can abort at 8 months, but Peterson can get double homicide is fucking ridiculous and contradictory in the legal system.
Originally Posted by Axgar
Haven't we already proven capital punishment doesn't work?
Originally Posted by Zzapp
Agreed, but the woman would also get a murder charge if caught.
Originally Posted by Zzapp
I'm not much on medical malpractice, but I think that would call for it lol. Same doctor each time?
Originally Posted by Brigiid
How many people are injured in car accidents that never step in a vehicle?
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bg85 on another forum: "i always refer to myself as a "missionary agnostic." that is, not only do i not know shit about shit, but i'm going to try and convince you that you don't know shit about shit either and there's no way for you to know shit about shit." Heretic |
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#191 |
Priest of Hiroshima
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
None. But how many people try to practice absitinence, then fail? The very definition of abstinence as a birth control method makes it produce skewed results. If you have sex, you did not practice abstinence and therefore the method didn't fail.
But if you were a practicing abstinent, and went to a party and said "screw it" and knocked boots with someone, then the method did fail. Abstinence is not a foolproof birth control method. I'd argue that it's the least effective method out there, when used alone, because it relies on the self-control of the practicer rather than a physical barrier to pregnancy. All it takes is one lapse in judgment. That happens far more often than a condom breaking.
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One of the wonders of the world is going down It's going down I know It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares No-one cares enough Attachment 181 |
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#192 |
RSS Feed
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 20,628
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Originally Posted by Heretic
Nope! Next!
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__________________
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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#193 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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Well, EC got closest to my point.
Originally Posted by Brigiid
My point is that you are seeming to hold people to a higher standard than you will even hold yourself.
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#194 |
Registered User
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Originally Posted by Heretic
For your next great trick, maybe you could tell us what relevance that has to the conversation at hand?
Originally Posted by Ares
If used correctly, yes it is. If you're not going to stick to your guns, then no, it won't work for you - just like not using a condom or not taking your birth control pills.
Originally Posted by Zzapp
How's that?
I practice safe sex within the confines of a committed and monogamous relationship. I'm financially secure enough to afford a child if we were to get pregnant anyway. While a pregnancy would be unplanned and unexpected at this point, I'm confident in continuing to fuck like bunnies because I know that even if birth control does fail, we can handle it. Looking at this from the opposite direction, if I were not in a monogamous relationship with someone I felt comfortable raising a child with or putting up with for the rest of eternity, I wouldn't be having sex with them. Then I don't have to worry about birth control failing and me getting pregnant and us not a) wanting to be together or b) being able to afford it. See? I prefer prevention of a bad situation, to letting the bad situation happen because I can't control my hormones, and then having to fix the mistake later. That's the standard I hold myself to, and that's all I ask of other people.
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Meh. |
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#195 |
Priest of Hiroshima
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
And I maintain that the rate of people not "sticking to their guns" is far higher than the failure rate of condoms or the pill. Anyone have some data on the rate of premarital sex among students who have completed abstinence-only sex-ed?
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One of the wonders of the world is going down It's going down I know It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares No-one cares enough Attachment 181 |
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#196 |
Registered User
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Originally Posted by Ares
Abstinence, when used correctly, is 100% accurate. Condoms and the pill, when used correctly, are said to have 99%+ accuracy. The key is to actually use it, whatever "it" is.
I'm not sure what your point is.
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Meh. |
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#197 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,637
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I guess you're just one of those people that just has to wait for reality to kick in full bore.
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Israel likes to say, "Never Forget," but apparently, they forgot. |
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#198 |
Priest of Hiroshima
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
When used correctly.
We're going in circles. Let me try to clarify. (A) A person wishing to avoid unplanned pregnancies must select a method of birth control. Options include pills, condoms, or abstinence. (B) A person decides on a method. (C) No matter which one it is, we can define the failure rate as: (proportion of times attempted to use method and failed to do so) + (proportion of times used method and method failed). As in: % of times he forgets to wear a condom and has sex + % of times the condom fails and produces a pregnancy. Or % of times she forgets to take the pills and ends up engaging in sex which could produce a pregnancy + % of times pills failed to prevent pregnancy. OR % of times attempted to abstain but failed and ended up having sex + % of times abstinence failed to prevent pregnancy. Now, let's compare the methods. For condoms, the break % is about 1% we'll assume, but how often does a broken condom result in pregnancy? Multiply that percentage (25%? 50%?) by 1% to get your true failure rate for a broken condom, since not every act of unprotected sex produces a pregnancy Now for the extra component of the failure rate. How likely is a guy to mess up and forget the condom, yet still have sex? I'd guess it's a low proportion for anyone in a relatively stable relationship. We don't really need to know just yet, I'll just call it P(C). For the pill: we'll say it fails only 0.1% because it must result in a pregnancy to be a failure, less than a condom but still statistically significant. How likely is a woman to forget to use it? It's ridiculously easy to take a pill daily. The failure rate here has to be low. I'll call it P(P), where P(C) > P(P) For abstinence: if properly used, there is a 0% chance of pregnancy. But how often does an abstinent person lapse? This requires more than just forgetting to carry a condom or forgetting to refill a prescription. Again, if you use statistics from abstinence-only sex-ed as an example of how someone told to abstain does not do so, you could come up with an approximate answer. I'll call it P(A) and say that P(A) > P(C) > P(P). For the record: my sex-ed in middle school was abstinence-only. I can list at least a dozen girls in my graduating class of 500 who ended up with a kid before high school was up. That's my entire hypothesis, that a person attempting abstinence as the sole method of birth control is more likely to engage in unsafe sex than someone using a more passive form of birth control.[CODE]
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One of the wonders of the world is going down It's going down I know It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares No-one cares enough Attachment 181 |
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#199 |
Registered User
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Originally Posted by Zzapp
Meaning?
Originally Posted by Ares
The simple fact is that if you're not having sex, you aren't going to accidentally get pregnant. If you are having sex, you stand a chance of getting pregnant. Your argument about willpower makes sense, but it doesn't negate anything I've said.
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Meh. |
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#200 |
Priest of Hiroshima
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
Because what you say does not address the underlying issue: abstinence is not 100% effective at preventing people from having sex.
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One of the wonders of the world is going down It's going down I know It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares No-one cares enough Attachment 181 |
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