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Old 11-16-2006, 01:12 PM   #26
Axgar
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Actually in todays world learning a foreign language could be a good thing just because a lot of business (big business anyway) deal overseas......

But I was just being a smartass when I said we would be speaking whatever language and your right the French have a hard time overthrowing the immigrants in their own country so...........
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by wildane
Then you fucking teach them.
If I have kids, I will.


Originally Posted by wildane
Of course you'd say that. I say it is an effective way to keep order in the classroom.
Sure seems to be working on domestic and world policy.


Originally Posted by wildane
Part of teaching is finding ways to make kids care. It's not a huge part and teachers wil only go so far, but you have to be able to catch the children's attention.
Agreed.


Originally Posted by wildane
And? It is an effective punishment that does no permanent damage. It's not like they're torturing these kids.
Abuse is abuse.


Originally Posted by wildane
And you are wrong again.
ADD is like alcoholism....made up to defend behavior.


Originally Posted by fafner
That said, it's much more important as to how the money is spent. I've seen high schools dump tens of millions into football stadiums & the like. I'd rather send my kids to the school where they're putting in a good science lab.
I think they should institute a policy of no more money for sports until a certain percentage of ALL children that attend there (not just athletes) meet a certain standard.
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Old 11-17-2006, 01:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Heretic
If I have kids, I will.
I don't know what's worse: you teaching anyone anything or the thought of you actually reproducing.
Originally Posted by Heretic
Abuse is abuse.
No, discipline is warranted, abuse is not.
Originally Posted by Heretic
ADD is like alcoholism....made up to defend behavior.
So now you're saying alcoholism isn't real either? Having a brother who has both ADD and is an alcoholic, I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are wrong. Where do you get this shit?
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Old 11-17-2006, 02:05 AM   #29
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I wonder if it's possible that homosexuality is made up like ADD and alcoholism.
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Old 11-17-2006, 02:11 AM   #30
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Yea, I can see it now,

Heretic fighting to get alcoholism taken off the list of diseases and Homosexuality put on so that homos can collect disability.
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:38 AM   #31
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I tend to agree with him on ADD. There is another word for ADD in my book: kids who need an ass kicking. As for alchoholism, some people most certainly respond differently to alchohol than others. I have seen more than one bright, shining representatives of achievement and responsibility reduced to bankruptcy and drug addiction in a matter of a few years. One friend of mine, in particular, went from disdain for anyone who used illegal drugs to constant inebriation and crack cocaine. He wouldn't drink for the first three years I knew him. His senior year in college, he started. He didn't know how to just have a few beers. It was either sober or wasted for him. I know for a fact that he responded differently to alchohol than I did.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:34 AM   #32
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I believe whole-heartedly that ADD is real, but I also believe it can be misdiagnosed. For years, I thought that and/or social anxiety was my problem. Turns out my symptoms could be the result of sleep apnea. I won't really know for sure until I can start sleeping regularly, but lots of brain activity at night equals harder to focus during the day.

However, my mother is a schoolteacher with over 30 years of experience working with young children. I trust her judgment when it comes to the existence of the various learning disabilities/behavioral problems.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Beal
I tend to agree with him on ADD. There is another word for ADD in my book: kids who need an ass kicking. As for alchoholism, some people most certainly respond differently to alchohol than others. I have seen more than one bright, shining representatives of achievement and responsibility reduced to bankruptcy and drug addiction in a matter of a few years. One friend of mine, in particular, went from disdain for anyone who used illegal drugs to constant inebriation and crack cocaine. He wouldn't drink for the first three years I knew him. His senior year in college, he started. He didn't know how to just have a few beers. It was either sober or wasted for him. I know for a fact that he responded differently to alchohol than I did.
I have a friend pretty much in the same boat Beal, although my friend did drink he wouldnt so much as talk to people who smoked pot..... now he is a meth freak.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:43 AM   #34
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I belieev ADD is just a made up diagnoses of a certain type of kid. I think the condition is real, but it's nothing new and medication is not the way it should be treated. I think kids with ADD simply need more discipline, and will proabbly be a big job for thier parents. I was diagnosed with ADD when I was in third grade, but my mother refused to put me on meds. I won't lie, I DEFINITELY got into more trouble than my sister... and while my sister got disciplined maybe a handful of times growing up... I couldn't count how many times I was disciplined! Even so, I managed to do fine. Sometimes it is still vey hard for me to concentrate on something, especially for a period of time... but I can do it.

Kids with the characteristics called ADD now, I think must learn to develope the personal skills and discipline to deal with thier own state of being to be succesful and happy. Medicating them, imo jsut makes them zombies and they miss out on developing the skills to deal with thier own situation. It's a crutch, and imo not good for the long term health or mentality of the child. Using drugs as an easy answer is a bad policy, imo.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:51 AM   #35
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Or, medication just makes up for what the body lacks. All the discipline or learning techniques in the world can't make up for a chemical imbalance.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:54 AM   #36
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I believe it can. (I am not stating it as fact), I just believe in the power of people's minds... and I believe that if blind people can learn to live normal lives, so can an ADD kid. Heck, I am one... sure it's REALLY hard for me to study, but sometimes you jsut have to force yourself to do things your body doesn't want to do. Sometimes your mind wants to wander, but you can force it to stay on one thing for a while. Sure, you can take breaks... (of course if you aren't careful you take one every 5 minutes)... but I do believe through self discipline it can be overcome.

The only problem I have had as a result is that my doctor tells me that I have deleoped a propensity for compulsive behavior. I am so used to constantly reinforcing or forcing myself to do certain things periodically. Not surprisingly my mother is the same way.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:59 AM   #37
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Yeah, but blind people DON'T live normal lives. Sure, they live independently, but they couldn't tell you blue from red. Same with some kidney patients. If you have to have a kidney removed, you have to take a pill for the rest of your life (unless I'm remembering incorrectly). I believe in the mind's capacity to learn, but not to heal physical ailments.
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Old 11-17-2006, 08:00 AM   #38
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mmm I didn't say heal... I said overcome. I don't think the medication heals it either... I think they are jsut two different ways of getting around the ame obstacle.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:03 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Everclear
mmm I didn't say heal... I said overcome. I don't think the medication heals it either... I think they are jsut two different ways of getting around the ame obstacle.
Well, if I can give junior a pill that will prevent him having to work twice as hard as everyone else his whole life, I'll take the pill. Ask a blind man if he'd take a pill to regain his vision.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:14 AM   #40
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Maybe, you are right. However, I think that working twice as hard also provides benefits that are assets that others don't have. They are also assets that the person will have for coping, in the case they don't have thier pill. So... there is the option of working twice as hard and devloping those skills... or chemical dependency... not having those skills, but life being easier..I prefer working... others might not.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:16 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Wildane
Well, if I can give junior a pill that will prevent him having to work twice as hard as everyone else his whole life, I'll take the pill. Ask a blind man if he'd take a pill to regain his vision.
Wouldn't it be better to give junior the pill instead of taking it yourself?
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:19 AM   #42
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Well.. a similiar example...if you were extremely wealthy... would you simply provide money to your child or make him work to earn thier own? One way is harder but provides benefits... the other is easier, and promotes dependency... I would prefer to make them work for the skills they would gain... others might not, they might prefer to provide as easy a life as possible for thier child. People have different ideas on what is best, and I can respect Wild's perspective, I simply disagree.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:21 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Everclear
Well.. a similiar example...if you were extremely wealthy... would you simply provide money to your child or make him work to earn thier own? One way is harder but provides benefits... the other is easier, and promotes dependency... I would prefer to make them work for the skills they would gain... others might not, they might prefer to provide as easy a life as possible for thier child. People have different ideas on what is best, and I can respect Wild's perspective, I simply disagree.
One name...*shudder* Paris Hilton.


(oh, and was this comment directed at me? If so, re-read what I was commenting on and how Wildane phrased his statement.)
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:56 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by wildane
Having a brother who has both ADD and is an alcoholic
Of course people can be alcoholics, it just isn't genetic.


Originally Posted by axgar
to get alcoholism taken off the list of diseases
You have got to be shitting me...its on there?


Originally Posted by beal
As for alchoholism, some people most certainly respond differently to alchohol than others.
Of course, everyone is different in that regard. That doesn't mean they have a genetic disposition that MAKES them drink to see how they respond.
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:01 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Everclear
Kids with the characteristics called ADD now, I think must learn to develope the personal skills and discipline to deal with thier own state of being to be succesful and happy. Medicating them, imo jsut makes them zombies and they miss out on developing the skills to deal with thier own situation. It's a crutch, and imo not good for the long term health or mentality of the child. Using drugs as an easy answer is a bad policy, imo.
The primary difference between ADD then and now is that an entirely different set of tests is used to diagnose ADD now. It used to be biometric (measuring hormone levels, reflex time, etc) as well as cognitive, but since biometrics are time consuming and more expensive, nowadays the cognitive tests are the only ones used. Unfortunately, the cognitive indicators of ADD are similar to many other disorders, hence the blanket medication and lumping together of many disorders into the ADD category.
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:33 AM   #46
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Of course, everyone is different in that regard. That doesn't mean they have a genetic disposition that MAKES them drink to see how they respond.
Makes them drink, no. Affects how they respond when they do drink? Yes...and I believe it is at least partially genetic. From the day they were born they were presented with a choice: don't touch alchohol or ruin your life. I don't excuse alchoholism, I just recognize that it is "real" and it is at least partially inherited. We all come with baggage and we all have to make due. Inherited problems do not justify a life of crime or laziness. I simply think it is important that people understand how alchoholism works. If nothing else, it might help people avoid the mistake I regret making: encouraging certain friends of mine to drink with me.
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:39 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by beal
From the day they were born they were presented with a choice: don't touch alchohol or ruin your life.
Exactly, a choice. If they make the wrong one, we shouldn't feel sorry for them.


Originally Posted by beal
I just recognize that it is "real" and it is at least partially inherited.
Ability to hold your alcohol is inherited....deciding to drink the first beer, and each beer after that, is not. Thats what most with 'alcoholism' want to claim.
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Old 11-17-2006, 01:27 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Davek
Wouldn't it be better to give junior the pill instead of taking it yourself?
I paid for 'em, let junior get his own damn pills!
Originally Posted by Heretic
Of course people can be alcoholics, it just isn't genetic.
Who said it was?
Originally Posted by Heretic
Exactly, a choice. If they make the wrong one, we shouldn't feel sorry for them.
Everybody makes bad choices. Some of them are much, much harder to get out of. If someone who's made a bad choice in the past wants help now, they should get it.
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Old 11-17-2006, 05:43 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by wildane
Who said it was?
When people refer to alcoholism, they usually are claiming it is genetic and they cannot control their drinking habits. I call BS.
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Old 11-17-2006, 05:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Heretic
When people refer to alcoholism, they usually are claiming it is genetic and they cannot control their drinking habits. I call BS.
Go to an AA meeting and actually listen to what they talk about. On second thought, that's probably not a good idea since all it would take is you opening your mouth once and they'd kick your ass, get triggered and fall off the wagon.
What's your experience with alcoholism, or any type of addiction? Do you know anything about it, been an addict, watched a close friend bottom out and recover (or die), anything? Or are you just talking out your blowhole?
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