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Old 11-08-2006, 08:32 PM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default GM Ford... why not do this...

So GM and Ford are suffering from a lack of sales. Its because they are beholden to the price of oil.

How's this for an idea.
GM and Ford have the resources to create a hedge market against losses in auto sales. I suggest they take the lead on creating sources for alternative energies.
I believe this is a great growth market and both of these companies can thrive as well as enhance their own products and images.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:22 PM   #2
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Station here where I work just got E 85 gasoline. That shit is about 20 cents cheaper than anything close to it. Luckily, my car takes it
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That reminds me of someone eating a shit sandwich who is happy that it has 20% less shit.
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:32 AM   #3
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dont lower the gas-price ... they should work to build engines that dont use so much gas or alternative resources.
if they dont understand that the time is over to waste this resource .. they will probably got no chance against european or japanese cars because they are more advanced regarding gas/mileage.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:59 PM   #4
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Tesla coils in every car FTW!
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:08 PM   #5
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Tesla invented the car. His car gets a billionty miles to the gallon. But he died before he could write the plans down out of his noggin
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:02 PM   #6
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I would like to read where you got the assumption thier lack of sales is directly the result of oil. As I understand it they suffer from many problems, including oil, but they had problems before that primarily:

1. Inability to design/engineer new models that appeal to the modern consumer. Ford, in particular has been VERY bad about ingenuity in design.

2. An obsolete reliance on steel

3. Bad business models that are not efficient and streamlined. American auto manufacturers, in particular also face challenges from various unions

4. Extremely high pension liabilities. GM is is a particular corner with this one, partly due to thier "employ for life" program. They are in a VERY precarious state, after having to sell off GMAC to continue operations as a automotive producer. BOTH my in-laws work for GM, and have been very ignorant regarding thier finances and planning. (His entire family is almost completely unaware of financial matters, not surprisingly this ignorance has bred fear). I am now actively helping them to structure thier retirements, and to create a strategy in the face of the very real possibility that there will NOT be a pension around for them to live off of for the rest of thier lives. The particulars of which are not necessary. I actually spoke to a man about my father-in-law's retirement, who told me that "all the money is stored away safetly"... to which I responded that I had no desire to see my in-laws living off a pity settlement from ERISSA. Neither of us was amused, and the paperwork is on the way.

While I don't disagree that oil prices DO hurt the industry, our particular automotive industry is in deep financial doodoo, and it's not all oil's fault. They are operating on borrowed time, and I read the 10ks just waiting for the disclosure of going concern issue.

What exactly is this "hedge market" against sales you are referring to? Keeping in mind that the companies are car producers, what exactly do you mean? I could understand if you were referring to..oh say Southwest Airline's extremely successful hedge against fuel costs... but GM and Ford? I would be very interested on elaboration there.
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Last edited by Everclear; 11-09-2006 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 11-10-2006, 07:13 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
So GM and Ford are suffering from a lack of sales. Its because they are beholden to the price of oil.

How's this for an idea.
GM and Ford have the resources to create a hedge market against losses in auto sales. I suggest they take the lead on creating sources for alternative energies.
I believe this is a great growth market and both of these companies can thrive as well as enhance their own products and images.
Ahh, but this would take... dare I say it...

Foresight and innovation...

Something the big 3 and Ford have been lacking since shifting gears to the SUV production, because those types of cars have sold so well. Hard to ignore profits like that when gas was so cheap.

Short of another stunning and forward-looking management change at the helm of the automakers, I think we're going to be seeing more of the same lame R&D efforts on trying to capture the imagination of an auto buying public hooked on SUVs, Hondas, and Toyotas.

However, should these alternative fuel cars come to market and people actually start buying them, I'm willing to pick up a few thousand shares of GM stock.
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Old 11-10-2006, 08:31 AM   #8
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This will piss off all of you union fans but IMO the Union (although it started out with the right idea) has become a nuisance to many industries and in fact are the cause of a lot of failures.

I say this because of some of the things they have won for their memebers via wages that are way overpaid in some cases, I believe its ford that has all kinds of special bonuses for retirees that are way beyond the ways and means of a struggling company........

Im not going to suggest that the unions are ALL bad, just that in todays world they sometimes do more damage than good and that they have gotten away from the intended principle of protecting the laborer and went more towards screwing the industry........ (not to mention that it has become industrialized itself, meaning that it is all about money FOR them where as before it was all about fair pay for the laborer)
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:14 AM   #9
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Not to mention that closed unions keep new (and often more skilled) workers from entering the workforce. This isn't as big a deal with manufacturing companies as other industries since the skillsets haven't changed that much. I just don't understand why someone would want to have to pay a union to be allowed to work.
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Old 11-10-2006, 03:58 PM   #10
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Unions aren't the problem in this case. They are a different problem but they don't cause the lack of sales or the creation of practical vehicles.
You are demonizing Unions for all of the lack of profitable business. They are not the cause of all of the ills of capitalism.

What exactly is this "hedge market" against sales you are referring to?
The car companies failed to innovate and when the cars became overpriced and gas prices went up, they were shit out of luck.
If they are at the forefront of green power, they will be elevating the "green" market while killing off the "petro" market. Its a natural move for them in my opinion. The problem they face is the rise of the "green" market is inevitable and the decline of the "petro" market is inevitable as well. If they start moving to green they can not only have products for it, but also create the energy for those products. It would be akin to Oil companies building all of the cars. What a great monopoly that would be.
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:33 PM   #11
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So you are suggesting that currently financially troubled automakers magically develope the technology and design for these new green cars...magically make production time disappear... and on top of all that enter into the energy markets, for which I doubt they have any infrastructure or capability?.... I see..
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Old 11-11-2006, 03:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Everclear
So you are suggesting that currently financially troubled automakers magically develope the technology and design for these new green cars...magically make production time disappear... and on top of all that enter into the energy markets, for which I doubt they have any infrastructure or capability?.... I see..
Biofuels and the motors that run on them have been around for a few decades, it just hasn't become cost effective in the US for manufacturing or distribution yet. Brazil has been using sugarcane ethanol for almost a decade now, and they hardly import any oil (for fuel) at all anymore.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Mr. Fusion.
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Old 11-11-2006, 04:24 PM   #13
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