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Old 11-16-2006, 11:19 AM   #51
Axgar
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I dont know that you can force them to say it unless its relevant, like in a Christian book store I would presume that its relevant to the topic at hand, but Im not sure maybe wal mart does require their workers to say Merry Christmans so I will concede the arguement due to lack of knowledge or any proof whatsoever.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:20 AM   #52
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I don't think they force them to say it... I think last year it was discouraged. This year they are decorating with the message "Merry christmas" and are not discouraging employees from saying it. Waht pissed people off is that management actually discouraged them from saying it last year, and made an active attempt to not have it appear in decorations.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:36 AM   #53
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Yeah, because that's a rational comparison.
YOU DENY THE GLORY THAT IS FRESH BREAD?!
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:40 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Foust Farseer
QFGDMFT.
OK, I'll bite.... what's the acronym stand for? My brain's too tired to figure it out.

Originally Posted by wildane
..:: Quoting Foust ::..
"Naw, we're not trying to take over the country and enforce our religion on other people because they're filthy sinners and must be purged. But if we were, we'd probably start with large retail stores while hounding politicians to make special exemptions......"
..:: End Quote ::..
Paranoid much?
Not paranoid at all, when you consider the leadership of the groups who lobbied walmart to do this. I think Foust may have been making an allusion to OJ, looking at how he wrote his reply though...

Originally Posted by Brigiid
I think this is moreso a fight against political correctness and forced sterilization than it is about their religion being 'above all others'.
I must disagree with you. While not all christians would threaten such an action just to assert their authority (read: pissing contest) the leaders of the organizations who threatened the boycott are certainly rabid enough to do so.

Originally Posted by Foust
When the Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Pagans, Jedi, or any other organized religion conquer their own little slice of land, they can write into law all the religious dogma they want and make business owners cater to their faith and their faith only.
Originally Posted by Foust
They can believe whatever they want. I don't care. But as soon as they try to subvert people by trying to initiate faith-based policy, they've gone too far.
So which is it? As far as the christians are concerned, they finished conquering this land when the freemasons wrote the Constitution. Personally I'd like to see the Jedi take over.
The muslims conquered their land centuries ago, yet the christian nations keep invading them, nominally because their religious dogma IS written into their laws.

Originally Posted by EC
that is a jsut a particular word they overuse on that show and it irritates me.
I dunno, I don't think they use it any more than real people use various conjugations of fuck. Then again, I sound like a sailor most of the time so I'm probably biased.
At least they didn't carry over feldercarb into the new series, I can't believe Dirk Benedict was ever able to say that word with a straight face.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:42 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Foust Farseer
YOU DENY THE GLORY THAT IS FRESH BREAD?!
Heresy! As long as it's unleavened...
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:49 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Fafner
If I own a Christian bookstore, what will I script? If I run a bakery in a predominantly Jewish area, what will I script?
How about if you owned a Jewish restaurant? Waiter walks up to a table of Jewish women and asks, "Is anything alright?"

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Old 11-16-2006, 07:27 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Foust
I also don't believe that Happy Holidays was ever about political correctness as it was about not having to say Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza, Happy Chanukah and Happy New Year to every goddamn person that walked in the door
Then what's with the trend toward calling Christmas trees 'Holiday Trees'? The common denominator in both situations is the removal of the term 'Christmas'. Convenience makes sense in the first case, but not in the second.

Originally Posted by Celedine
While not all christians would threaten such an action just to assert their authority (read: pissing contest) the leaders of the organizations who threatened the boycott are certainly rabid enough to do so.
Sure, some of 'em are. Every cause has its nutjobs. Unfortunately, it isn't restricted to Christianity.

Here's how I see it: fighting to keep 'Merry Christmas' in circulation protects their interests - making sure that their holiday isn't forcefully trivialized. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're trying to obliterate the other religions that have celebrations around the same time of the year. It doesn't mean that people must stop saying 'Happy Hannukah' or 'Happy Kwanzaa' and replace it with 'Merry Christmas'.

I'd expect the debate to be more religion vs. religion if that's what they were attempting to do. Instead, they're just fighting to have their holiday recognized publicly.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:47 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by wildane
Pagans don't have a religion?
Point?


Originally Posted by wildane
Face it, the only reason you're getting bent out of shape is because these people are Christians.
I would have the same stance if a group of athiests was boycotting a business saying Merry Christmas.


Originally Posted by brigiid
I think this is moreso a fight against political correctness and forced sterilization
What forced? They aren't forcing customers to say 'happy holidays'. It is just the wishes of their store. The customers are trying to force their views onto them.


Originally Posted by axgar
I like how political correctness is a bad thing untill Heretic and Foust and crew start talking about gay people then being polically correct is a good thing......... go fucking figure.
I said I hate PC. I hate calling them 'holiday festivals' or 'holiday trees'.


Originally Posted by fafner
Ax, when you drive up to McDonald's and they always ask "Do you want fries with that?", or if you drive up to a Starbuck and they always start "Would you like to try our Eggnog Latte Venti Expresso SugarRush Frappacino today?", do you think it's just coincidence that all the employees say the exact thing?
I HATE that. Also, I hate in stores where they require employees to repeatedly come up and ask 'do you need help?' If I want a bagel or need help, I'LL FUCKING ASK FOR IT! They put these policies in place to sell more stuff or call it 'customer service' when all it does is piss customers off.
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Old 11-17-2006, 12:10 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Heretic
What forced? They aren't forcing customers to say 'happy holidays'. It is just the wishes of their store.
There's an underlying pressure to be politically correct - like you're an unwashed heathen if you use the term 'black' instead of 'African American' or 'Stewardess' instead of 'Flight Attendant', or now...'Christmas Tree' instead of 'Holiday Tree'.

It isn't just Wal-Mart. The issue of political correctness and proper social etiquette is everywhere. For a few years, there, we just went nuts re-naming everything and I think people are just sick of it. I know I am.
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Old 11-17-2006, 02:00 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Heretic
Point?
No thanks, I already have one.
Originally Posted by Heretic
I would have the same stance if a group of athiests was boycotting a business saying Merry Christmas.
Really? Because it sure does look like your problem is with the religion factor...
Originally Posted by Heretic
By what right, however, does a a religious group have the right to dictate how a private corporation decides to celebrate holidays?

Do you honestly refuse to shop somewhere because they don't kiss-ass your religion?

Its just another issue being brought up to fuel the 'persecuted Christians' fire and get conservatives into office.

Are you really so insecure or arrogant about your religion that it must be the only one in the public square?
Originally Posted by Heretic
What forced? They aren't forcing customers to say 'happy holidays'.
No, they are only forcing them to hear it. I guess if the greeters said "Welcome to Wal-Mart; go fuck yourself!" it would be wrong to protest that, too?
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Old 11-17-2006, 02:16 AM   #61
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For the record........ I call them evergreens.
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:35 AM   #62
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Then what's with the trend toward calling Christmas trees 'Holiday Trees'?
the fuck? Id never heard about that. That's a bit overboard. There's no reason to change that name for PC reasons because.....what other freakin november/december/january holiday uses a tree?!
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:44 AM   #63
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I say Christmas Tree... and Merry Christmas... and I really don't care what Wal-Mart says, so long as I am not forced to say something... or as long as the government is not forcing a business to say something. They could call them Kwanzaa trees and I would probably just laugh and ask if they are different from Christmas trees... like if they came with veggies or something. Or if they called them Hanukkah trees I would ask if they are kosher...I mean really... I don't care, so long as the stupidity is by choice, and not forced.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:08 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
Then what's with the trend toward calling Christmas trees 'Holiday Trees'?
I haven't heard this. That's even dumber than freedom fries.

Originally Posted by Wildane
Pagans don't have a religion?
We don't?

Originally Posted by Foust
what other freakin november/december/january holiday uses a tree?!
Yule, which falls on the winter solstice.
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:08 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by wildane
Really? Because it sure does look like your problem is with the religion factor...
Honestly. The issue would be no different if one religion was trying to go up against another religion.
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:09 AM   #66
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Or if they called them Hanukkah trees I would ask if they are kosher
Haha. I get the image of an off-shift cab driver goin "Naw, we actually fed pigs to the trees to give them a richer coat"
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:28 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Celedine
Originally Posted by Foust
QFGDMFT
OK, I'll bite.... what's the acronym stand for?
If I had to guess, I'd say that's "quoted for goddamn motherfucking truth".

Originally Posted by Foust
the fuck? Id never heard about that. That's a bit overboard. There's no reason to change that name for PC reasons because.....what other freakin november/december/january holiday uses a tree?!
Exactly!

I've heard it on TV, seen it in stores, etc. Here's a related article, though I've seen it in many many many places in the last 2 years or so.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...ree051123.html

I don't know how the Yule tree and its associated traditions compare to the Christmas Tree, but other than that, there really isn't another religion I'm aware of that has a holiday at that time of year that involves a decorated tree.

So, calling it a Holiday Tree doesn't really seem to be about convenience - combining all of the tree-related celebrations into one. It seems more about not offending people by using the world 'Christmas'.
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Old 11-19-2006, 05:02 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
If I had to guess, I'd say that's "quoted for goddamn motherfucking truth".
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Brigiid
I don't know how the Yule tree and its associated traditions compare to the Christmas Tree, but other than that, there really isn't another religion I'm aware of that has a holiday at that time of year that involves a decorated tree.
Yule as it was kept in prechristian europe involved decorating a chunk of maypole (sacrificial debranched tree decorated with ribbons held by unattached dancers, much fun) taken by each family from Beltaine. The Asatru (norse, vikings, whatever) built on that tradition with their own practice, hanging candles on a ritual tree to summon back the sun.
More info than you probably wanted
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