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#1 |
Psychopath w/a conscience
Join Date: Nov 2002
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OK, I was reading an article that listed some of the hot topics on ballots across the country and came across this:
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#2 |
Sociopathic bully?
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Sounds like they're just making sure nobody skates for trying to stone their trampy daughter to death at the family BBQ simply because in their culture it might be ok to punish promiscuity in that manner. Oklahomans, not the EU or mullahs, determine the law in Oklahoma, would be my interpretation. They don't want foreign legal precedents used in OK courts- seems pretty reasonable really, unless I'm misreading the blurb.
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#3 |
Psychopath w/a conscience
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Well, when you put it like that, it makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of civil cases, but yeah, no "honor" killings plz.
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#4 |
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Join Date: May 2003
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International law is not relevant to an Oklahoma court. Oklahoma citizens vote on Oklahoma law, Americans vote on American law.
Yes, this sounds so obvious that it's silly for me to even say it, much less pass a law about it. Most laws are like that: they happen after someone has done the silly and so the obvious needs to be mandated. |
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#5 |
Supporter
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They are saying to all Muslims, that they have no chance in hell of encroaching on OK values, and they can stay the fuck away.
Isnt that obvious? I applaud them for using the Democratic process
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#6 |
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/08...ailed-respond/
follow up
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#7 |
Psychopath w/a conscience
Join Date: Nov 2002
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You know, the more I think of it, the more I'm not so sure about the new law. Is following Shariah a part of the practice of Islam? If so, wouldn't that be protected by our US Constitution? Seems to be an awful slippery slope there.
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Sharia is, technically, part of Islam. In the same way that the Ten Commandments are part of Christianity. However, not everything forbidden/banned/illegal according to Sharia is banned in the US.
Homosexuality and adultery are both punishable crimes under Sharia Law, for example.
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#9 |
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Originally Posted by Wildane
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/10...t-dont-bruise/ Under Shariah, it's permissible to beat your wife, as long as you don't bruise her. Well, at least in the more "enlightened" countries such as the UAE. In places like Syria, feel free to bruise her as you want. So no, it's not protected by our Constitution when it comes into conflict with our Constitution.
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#10 |
Psychopath w/a conscience
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Playing devil's advocate here: where in the Constitution does it say you can't beat your wife?
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#11 |
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Sigh.....
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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#12 |
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Human sacrifice is part of some religions. Doesn't mean said practice is protected.
To me this just seems like an absolute no brainer- religious law and religious courts have no place whatsoever in our legal system. It doesn't surprise me though that Muslims might feel picked on by such a specific legislation (which could be part of the problem- a more appropriate law would be prohibiting any religious elements from court). I think what they're trying to head off is going the way that England has gone- which is to actually empower sharia courts to rule on arbitration cases (that is- both parties agree to allow a sharia court to rule in lieu of the normal justice system). I think what they've done in the UK is absolute madness, so I'm 100% behind OK on this one.
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#13 |
Psychopath w/a conscience
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Well, you claim one part of the Constitution is conflicting with another, I'd like to know the part that covers spousal abuse.
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#14 |
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Actually Wildane, I think maybe we're the ones who are confused.
Please give an example of where courts should take Shariah law into consideration over American law. Also, would this example apply to Catholic church doctrine as well? |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Originally Posted by Aolynd
Why? I'm just asking questions here.![]()
Originally Posted by Drysdale
Man, you're no fun anymore. I know the Constitution doesn't allow for you to beat your spouse, but it doesn't explicitly forbid it, so technically your comment is incorrect. Spousal abuse is covered by state law, not the Constitution. Just busting your balls a bit.
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by Aolynd
There is precedent for legal considerations for other non-U.S. laws taken into consideration. Native Americans have their established tribal courts which exercise their jurisdiction over other Native Americans. According to Wiki: ![]()
Now, does the passage of that law make sense in this context? I can see the justification, but I also have a few realistic observations - unlike the Oglala, Comanche, or any of the other tribes living in OK, Islam has never been a sovereign state. I can hardly see a citizen, naturalized or born on U.S. soil, can claim "domestic dependent state" status for Islam. Shariah law is religious law, just like the Torah or the Bible have their religious laws and edicts, but Christianity, Judaism, or Islam have never been sovereign states (and no, the Vatican doesn't count - it's a sovereign city state recognized by its land right, not its religion). But I also see where certain customs in religious communities may be governed by religious law in this country - the custom of weddings, burials, etc. But I can't remember any case where observation of religious law trumped the legal authority of an official jurisdiction within the U.S. |
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#17 |
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Originally Posted by Paffy
If I'm not mistaken, those were actually established via treaties with the various tribes, giving them some autonomy in exchange for their laying down their arms, and in partial (if shitty) restitution for taking their sovereign lands.
So yeah, they were sovereign states, just as you said. That probably makes a pretty big diff. I was informed once, that the practice of Gypsies (In the US) of selling their daughters into marriage before they were of normal legal age was legal because of this exact situation. (I was dating a gypsy girl, and her father didn't like it because he stood to lose about $30K in 1980's money. We were both teen agers, and it ended with me getting my ass kicked by about a half dozen of her family and her being watched like a hawk for a couple years until she was married off to a 3rd cousin. The cops weren't interested in doing anything about it because it was their established ethnic tradition, or somesuch nonsense. Bleh)
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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#18 |
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Originally Posted by Pafuna
New Jersey.![]()
Now as you can see, the ruling was (rightfully) overturned by the appellate court. However, Oklahoma here is taking the approach of "Stop it before it starts." Obviously there are some who feel that Shariah law SHOULD be taken into account. The people of Oklahoma feel it should not. And since so far no one, even the OP can give an example of why it ever would be...the argument is a bit pointless. |
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#19 |
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It's my religious belief that I can shoot bastards who do this to women. Hell, I'll bet I could even get some of you to testify that it really IS my religious belief!
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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#20 |
Warrior 4 the working-day
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Yes, your honor - I sincerely think that Drysdale does believe that anyone who New Jerseys some poor, unsuspecting woman deserves to be shot. Really, it's just common decency to kill anyone who would New Jersey anyone else against their will, but especially a woman or child or the elderly.
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Fafner Wabbitslayer, Retired Shaman of Reviction, Erollisi Marr/Morell Thule "This story shall the good man teach his son;... From this day to the ending of the world," -- William Shakespeare, Henvy V, Act 4, Scene 3 |
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#21 |
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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#22 |
Warrior 4 the working-day
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Good thing you cleared that up - here I was thinking that to "New Jersey" someone was to put them on a MTV reality show.
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Fafner Wabbitslayer, Retired Shaman of Reviction, Erollisi Marr/Morell Thule "This story shall the good man teach his son;... From this day to the ending of the world," -- William Shakespeare, Henvy V, Act 4, Scene 3 |
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#23 |
Supporter
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell
Unless that woman is Snooki. ![]()
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Shylodog Wamphyri 66 Arch Convoker (Retired)
Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Originally Posted by Drysdale
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#24 |
Psychopath w/a conscience
Join Date: Nov 2002
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I think I'd rather take the beating.
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"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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#25 |
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That little fireplug looks like she could probably hold her own.
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein "Thou shalt not steal. Except by majority vote." - Gary North |
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