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Old 12-17-2012, 03:15 PM   #1
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Default Further proof this board is dead

Obviously I've been pretty inactive in recent months (years really) compared to the old days, but I'm shocked there's no Sandy Hook Memorial thread and that it hadn't already devolved into a gun rights/control pissing match.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:26 PM   #2
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Why would this board be focused on gun control. Its not going to end up sparking that debate.

If any thing it will be about how we deal with the mentally ill.

The problem with killing 6 year olds with a gun is, the gun is just obviously unnecessary. He would have got nearly the same body count with a hammer or knife.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:31 PM   #3
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The fact is that the vast majority of the posters show little or no decorum. It gets old after a while
There are other boards to post on. Especially when I suspect many of the active posters have never actually played EQ
That simply adds insult to injury
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
Obviously I've been pretty inactive in recent months (years really) compared to the old days, but I'm shocked there's no Sandy Hook Memorial thread and that it hadn't already devolved into a gun rights/control pissing match.
What's the point? We all know where it will go.

So-and-so: You know, I'm thinking the general public doesn't really need access to assault weapons.
Drysdale: STOP TRYING TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYBODY!
So-and-so: Nobody is trying to take all guns away from everybody, but if we can't completely eradicate gun violence, wouldn't it make sense to try and lower the body count?
Drysdale: STOP TRYING TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYBODY!
So-and-so: OK, you are reading what I'm writing, right? I firmly believe in the second amendment, but I can't think of a single instance where someone outside the military or SWAT needs that much firepower.
Drysdale: STOP TRYING TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYBODY!
So-and-so: Sigh...
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #5
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And on a more serious note, it's not an either/or situation here. No, tighter gun restrictions wouldn't do anything to affect the number of psychopaths out there, but it would allow them less ammunition. Addressing only one or the other isn't going to come up with a solution.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:20 AM   #6
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AFAIK, he wasn't diagnosed and didn't have a prior history... so gun control isn't an issue, imo. Unless we are going to start denying legit citizens guns... which I don't support.

I agree mental health is the issue here.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Pinkheart View Post
AFAIK, he wasn't diagnosed and didn't have a prior history... so gun control isn't an issue, imo. Unless we are going to start denying legit citizens guns... which I don't support.

I agree mental health is the issue here.
But it IS an issue with regards to high-powered, rapidly firing weapons. Nobody needs a fucking AR-15 for personal use, I don't care how paranoid you are. If it were ONLY people with a history of mental health issues that were doing things like this, I might agree with you, but mental health is only part of the equation. Nobody needs an arsenal.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:45 AM   #8
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Nobody needs an arsenal.
When you own my property, you can make the decisions on it's security. There are many, many people who own assault rifles who have not walked into a school and euthanized a portion of the student body.

Banning assault weapons didn't stop Columbine, either.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Foust Farseer View Post
When you own my property, you can make the decisions on it's security.
If you need more than a pistol and a shotgun to defend your home, you're either living in Juarez or you're incompetent. Besides, you could use that "logic" to justify owning an atomic bomb. I got news for you, your property or not, they won't let you keep that.
Originally Posted by Foust Farseer
There are many, many people who own assault rifles who have not walked into a school and euthanized a portion of the student body.
And there are many, many more people who don't own assault rifles who live happy, productive lives. And you know, I just really can't feel sympathy for someone else losing their toys. If your life isn't complete without machine guns, join the Army.
Originally Posted by Foust Farseer
Banning assault weapons didn't stop Columbine, either.
Oh, well I guess since no solution is perfect, we shouldn't address the problem at all! Good thinking, Sparky.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:10 AM   #10
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If you need more than a pistol and a shotgun to defend your home, you're either living in Juarez or you're incompetent. Besides, you could use that "logic" to justify owning an atomic bomb. I got news for you, your property or not, they won't let you keep that.
Where nuclear weapons are concerned, those that make up the "they" consist of more than just the US and it's Constitution. International treaties trump home defense.

Not to mention the cost-prohibitive nature of the technology, it's safety and containment procedures, and the fact that mutually assured destruction kind of defeats the purpose of home defense.

And there are many, many more people who don't own assault rifles who live happy, productive lives. And you know, I just really can't feel sympathy for someone else losing their toys. If your life isn't complete without machine guns, join the Army.
Well that's awfully petty. So because you take no enjoyment from various "toys," no one should?

Oh, well I guess since no solution is perfect, we shouldn't address the problem at all! Good thinking, Sparky.
So is the problem the availability of weapons or the fact that well-to-do white kids go insane and kill/try to kill a bunch of people for seemingly no reason?
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:10 AM   #11
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The fact is that there is no way to prevent something like this from happening - the man shot his way into the school,so all of this focus on school security is a distraction unless we build 12 foot steel walls around all of our schools.

The more interesting question is why as a society do we react this way. 20 children senselessy lost their life to violence last week due to a mentally unbalanced individual. Terrible - yes. But what should be done about it? I challenge you that perhaps the answer is nothing other than basic common sense prevention. Why? How often do these happen each year and how many children are affected?

as opposed to ...

losing five children every day due to abuse-related deaths

More than 16 out of every 100,000 children and teens in the U.S. were diagnosed with cancer, and nearly 3 of every 100,000 died from the disease.

So, without the disportionate publicity, we lose many more children to domestic violence and cancer than we due to unpredictable/uncontrollable mass killings, but we as a society are swayed by the emotion to make potentially irrational decisions on where we should spend our limited resources to save lives.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Foust Farseer View Post
Where nuclear weapons are concerned, those that make up the "they" consist of more than just the US and it's Constitution. International treaties trump home defense.

Not to mention the cost-prohibitive nature of the technology, it's safety and containment procedures, and the fact that mutually assured destruction kind of defeats the purpose of home defense.
It's an analogy. Try not to get too caught up in the semantics of the theoretical.
Originally Posted by Foust Farseer
Well that's awfully petty. So because you take no enjoyment from various "toys," no one should?
Where the fuck did I say that?
Originally Posted by Foust Farseer
So is the problem the availability of weapons or the fact that well-to-do white kids go insane and kill/try to kill a bunch of people for seemingly no reason?
Like I said, it's not an either/or situation. There isn't a single, cookie-cutter cause to this problem, so the solution will likewise not be as simple. Part of the problem is that this kid lost his marbles. Another part of the problem is that this kid got his hands on the "civilian" counterpart of an M-16. Both should be addressed.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Michael Cumberlan View Post
The fact is that there is no way to prevent something like this from happening - the man shot his way into the school,so all of this focus on school security is a distraction unless we build 12 foot steel walls around all of our schools.

The more interesting question is why as a society do we react this way. 20 children senselessy lost their life to violence last week due to a mentally unbalanced individual. Terrible - yes. But what should be done about it? I challenge you that perhaps the answer is nothing other than basic common sense prevention. Why? How often do these happen each year and how many children are affected?

as opposed to ...

losing five children every day due to abuse-related deaths

More than 16 out of every 100,000 children and teens in the U.S. were diagnosed with cancer, and nearly 3 of every 100,000 died from the disease.

So, without the disportionate publicity, we lose many more children to domestic violence and cancer than we due to unpredictable/uncontrollable mass killings, but we as a society are swayed by the emotion to make potentially irrational decisions on where we should spend our limited resources to save lives.
Wow, not even a week later and this event has been marginalized.

We've already got child services in place and we're working on the cure for cancer. If you have any new ideas on how we can improve those, I'd love to hear them. I'd also love to hear how removing "civilian" M-16s from the market constitutes an irrational decision, since there is no rational reason for Average Joe to own one.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
What's the point? We all know where it will go.

So-and-so: You know, I'm thinking the general public doesn't really need access to assault weapons.
Drysdale: STOP TRYING TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYBODY!
So-and-so: Nobody is trying to take all guns away from everybody, but if we can't completely eradicate gun violence, wouldn't it make sense to try and lower the body count?
Drysdale: STOP TRYING TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYBODY!
So-and-so: OK, you are reading what I'm writing, right? I firmly believe in the second amendment, but I can't think of a single instance where someone outside the military or SWAT needs that much firepower.
Drysdale: STOP TRYING TO TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY FROM EVERYBODY!
So-and-so: Sigh...
Douche. Stop trying to take ANY guns away from everybody.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
It's an analogy. Try not to get too caught up in the semantics of the theoretical.Where the fuck did I say that?

Like I said, it's not an either/or situation. There isn't a single, cookie-cutter cause to this problem, so the solution will likewise not be as simple. Part of the problem is that this kid lost his marbles. Another part of the problem is that this kid got his hands on the "civilian" counterpart of an M-16. Both should be addressed.
Can you tell me the functional difference between a Bushmaster





and this gun?

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #16
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Aside from the fact that both should be kept out of the hands of a mentally unstable 20-year-old? Nope, not from pictures.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:08 PM   #17
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You won't convince them Wildane, that's why this is destined to happen again and again. Too many view this dreadful kind of thing as an acceptable collateral loss to maintain their cowboy rights.

Sort this list by homicides per capita and compare the company the USA keeps. It's a total disgrace and simply baffling that people are content to maintain the status-quo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:27 PM   #18
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you lefties still fail to get it.


its not about if I have a gun or not. I am a law abiding citizen. Its rarely me the person you have to worry about.

Its the crazy fucker or the criminals. you really think they are going to pay attention to your gun laws?


Im for less gun control. the more people with guns the less likely this will happen. just look at texas.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Aside from the fact that both should be kept out of the hands of a mentally unstable 20-year-old? Nope, not from pictures.
Cool. We agree that they should both be kept out of the hands of the insane.

Now, make it happen without depriving the rest of us of liberty.

And the difference? One was legal under the AWB, the other wasn't. That's about the only quantifiable difference.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SupportTank View Post
you lefties still fail to get it.


its not about if I have a gun or not. I am a law abiding citizen. Its rarely me the person you have to worry about.

Its the crazy fucker or the criminals. you really think they are going to pay attention to your gun laws?


Im for less gun control. the more people with guns the less likely this will happen. just look at texas.
First of all, I'm no lefty. Second of all, while they may not pay attention to gun laws, the greatly reduced availability of these weapons will make them harder to find, even for criminals. Third, Texas isn't some beacon of light for gun ownership. They had the 2nd most murders in 2011, although to be fair, their murders per 100,000 people is more middle-of-the-road. However, that's still nothing to brag about.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Cool. We agree that they should both be kept out of the hands of the insane.

Now, make it happen without depriving the rest of us of liberty.

And the difference? One was legal under the AWB, the other wasn't. That's about the only quantifiable difference.
You know, liberty isn't some blank check that allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want. That may work if you weren't a member of a society, but you are. It is not possible to provide a reasonable justification for owning such a powerful weapon, and as a member of a society, compromises much be reached in the interest of public safety. The worst it would be for you would be that you have to give up a toy. Let's face it, you aren't living in the goddamn Alamo and Santa Ana is not charging your front door. The best is that we could save a few lives. Why is that such a difficult choice? Oh, it's because you're selfish, I forgot. Silly me.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:36 AM   #22
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The assault weapons ban was an embarrassingly idiot piece of legislation that deserved to disappear and not be spoken of again. Even IF you want to ban automatic or even semi automatic weapons, any sane reading would have to conclude that this legislation did nothing you want while being ignorant to the point of being sad.

It had little to do with banning any 'type' of weapon and more to do with banning weapons that look a certain way.



Then there's the really uncomfortable and embarrassing fact that there's not really any such thing as an assault weapon. That's not an actual type of weapon. It's a made up phrase designed to cover a number of oddly unrelated firearms that may have one or more obscure cosmetic similarities, not necessarily at all related to function, but mean sounding enough to get legislation passed so that come election time we can go on TV and say we got legislation passed.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:42 AM   #23
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I'm sorry. I just don't believe these kinds of bans keep the weapons out of the hands of criminals and the criminally insane.

I think it stops law abiding citizens from getting these guns..but they aren't he problem. I think an insane person could just as easily make pipe bombs or devise any other number of ways of committing violence, including getting illegal weapons off the black market.

Do I need a machine gun? No. Does me not getting one stop criminals and insane people? I really don't think so.

I civilian center like a school or hospital is not going to have many guns, period... and so will almost always be fairly defensless against armed assault of any type.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Wow, not even a week later and this event has been marginalized.

We've already got child services in place and we're working on the cure for cancer. If you have any new ideas on how we can improve those, I'd love to hear them. I'd also love to hear how removing "civilian" M-16s from the market constitutes an irrational decision, since there is no rational reason for Average Joe to own one.
To a certain extent, It SHOULD be marginalized. We are going to WASTE millions of dollars and thousands of hours discussiong how to prevent something which CAN'T by nature be prevented -like a meteor strike.

It's like the evil car companies who decided the paying out millions of dollars in lawsuits for a few deaths due to a design flaw was cheaper than spending TENS of millionsof dollars trying to fix it - at SOME POINT we have to get over this fixation on every life is SO VALUABLE that we will spend ANY amount of money trying to save it ... well guess what, the pool of money AIN'T infinite and we darn well better start, as a society, to grasp the fact that we can't fix everything and still have money left to eat.

Bring on the DEATH PANELS!!

But seriously, there is a grain truth in my sarcasm - is it more important to try and fix a problem that may happen 1 time or less a year across the entire nation, or to fix the obvious flaws we have in so many areas like education, health care and all the other problems that we are now distracted from GAIN because of the red herring of gun control/child safety??
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
You know, liberty isn't some blank check that allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want. That may work if you weren't a member of a society, but you are. It is not possible to provide a reasonable justification for owning such a powerful weapon,
Define reasonable.

Define powerful.

You're talking like a moron here. You're spouting from sheer ignorance, and you don't even know how absolutely blithely ignorant you're coming across with this.

and as a member of a society, compromises much be reached in the interest of public safety.
Ahh... "compromises". What is the other side giving up?

The worst it would be for you would be that you have to give up a toy.
The fact that you just called a rifle a toy shows how absolutely pig ignorant you really are.

Let's face it, you aren't living in the goddamn Alamo and Santa Ana is not charging your front door. The best is that we could save a few lives. Why is that such a difficult choice? Oh, it's because you're selfish, I forgot. Silly me.
No, the best is that we could forget this stupid, dangerous line of thinking. People like you are the reason the murder rate is higher in Chicago than in Mexico City. Grow up boy. You're a sad little hoplophobe who doesn't understand the subject that he's spouting about. If you did, you'd shut the fuck up. But you don't, so the little sheeple bleats again:

Ohhhh! I'm scawed of the big black gun! Pwease Mr Pwesident! Save me fwom it!

Oh, and in your righteous pig ignorance, you've forgotten a true gem of wisdom:

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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