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Old 12-27-2004, 03:02 PM   #26
bumbleroot
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I don't see Green Peace, the DNC or RNC, NRA, ACLU, NAACP or any other groups running soup kitches, orphanages, Crisis Pregnancy Centers, etc....
You don't see what you don't expose yourself to. You also have named a bunch of ideological groups that have nothing to do with charity. The United Way is the largest charitable organization in America and they are secular. Businesses are probably the largest charitable group in the country.


It is not Christianity that makes people charitable. It is their conscience. Jews are just as charitable as Christians, Muslims as well, possibly morseo.

As far as my ignorance goes- put up or shut up cons. If I don't know about something I admit it or don't speak up. You cons on these boards have been proven over and over again to speak with lack of knowledge. So don't go around spouting shit simply because you have no defense to anything.
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:38 PM   #27
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Flub you equate fortunate with money and money alone. It shows in this article that the one factor similar to these kids is the lack of a father in their lives. IT DOESN'T MENTION MONEY AS A CAUSE. It also shows that when a father figure gets involved the kids can rise above their situation.
Unless you are a bastard Flub, you are not in the same boat as these kids. So don't pretend that you are higher and mightier than they are because you "overcame the same odds". You're not higher and mightier, just hateful and angry.
And as a citizen of this country you probably sit on your ass and complain (while playing days and days of EQ), yet you do nothing to help these kids. You don't give your time to them so they can have a father figure. None of us do. I don't for sure. We have no right to complain about them if WE ARE GUILTY of not making the efforts we can to help them. We know we are not going to change their fathers so we allow the cycle to continue. We could step in and do something.
What's pitiful is we have such shit as "promise keepers" but they make no new efforts of their own for society. Instead they do what they are already doing, (taking care of their families) and go around trying to show how they are super-Christians for doing this. Yet, they never do a damned thing to help these kids without fathers. I guess they like the adulation of looking like good Christians rather than actually being good Christians. They are mostly hypocrits and I can guarantee you that those I know who are Promise-keepers are. Including someone I know who is on his third marriage and fourth kid and only aged 32. What a good Christian he is.
Well.. That makes me qualified then.. it was me and my mom growing up.. she worked constantly to keep food on the table.. and clothes on our backs.. and to pay the rent to our 500 sq ft. "house" that was in an alley.. it didn't even have direct access to a street.. and all the lights were the old flourescent ones that had the switch you had to hold for a few seconds to turn it on.. and it usually shocked the piss out of you when you did.. we had nothing.. and not many people helped us... My first bike was stolen from a local landfill by my grandpa and then we collected cans to raise enough money to buy new tires for it..

But.. I never stole, robbed or mugged anyone.. I never did drugs (although most of my friends did...) I didn't get anyone pregnant due to irresponsability.. I never really did anything against the law.. so I guess it might just be that Flub's right.. and that isn't a good excuse...
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Old 12-27-2004, 04:39 PM   #28
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So are the only altruistic ones the anonymous donors? They don't want recognition, they don't want money. They just want to donate to a cause.
well, i'd say that if anonymous donors qualify as altruistic (if not insane ), does this not defy the .. laws of human nature... as you stated them? and if they do counter it, then it undermines the entire premise rendering it universally invalid. this can be extended to an argument for an individual to be able to do a good deed 'publicly' BUT not doing it for the sole reason that it will be seen and known of by many.

just doing it because they believe it's good to do good. unless of course we subscribe such behavior as insane, then i guess you're right.

when all is said and done, though, i agree that the type of people you are describing peeve me as well. it's mostly frustrating because they give credibility to such arguments as these and tarnish the reputation of those truly good people out there. it certainly makes it more difficult to believe that such people really do exist.
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Old 12-27-2004, 07:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Flub Man
You assuming everyone is making 40k a year is making allot of money. You assume wrong. And are you talking about a family of four all living together making 40k?


Because I went to school, busted my ass, and worked menial jobs until I found the one I wanted. I should then turn around and volunteer for an hour a week as payback for the hard work I put in to get where I am at? This sounds right to you?


One weekend a month for a year is not to much to ask and would cost almost nothing. After all, it is the military that protects the freedoms we have to earn money. What is wrong about giving back to that community?
No, I was talking about a family of 4 living together making 160k. You can live well off that.

Grats man, most people work hard and bust their ass. I went to one of the top rated high schools on the west coast, where I earned a 4.2 GPA, played 2 varsity sports, won 2 championships, and still managed to do over 400 hours of community service in 4 years. I busted my ass, and I see nothing wrong with giving back. Sounds right to me. I continue to bust my ass in college, and I continue to do service, just got my grades back, and it hasn't been holding me back.

There are many arguments against a non professional military. One a monthers are not going to be as good as the average soldier. The military has told us time and again they don't want non professional soldiers because they don't work as well in the machine. Same reason drafted soldiers suck in most cases. The homeless and the needy want and will take anyone and anything they can get in the form of help.
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by kanya
well, i'd say that if anonymous donors qualify as altruistic (if not insane ), does this not defy the .. laws of human nature... as you stated them? and if they do counter it, then it undermines the entire premise rendering it universally invalid. this can be extended to an argument for an individual to be able to do a good deed 'publicly' BUT not doing it for the sole reason that it will be seen and known of by many.

just doing it because they believe it's good to do good. unless of course we subscribe such behavior as insane, then i guess you're right.

when all is said and done, though, i agree that the type of people you are describing peeve me as well. it's mostly frustrating because they give credibility to such arguments as these and tarnish the reputation of those truly good people out there. it certainly makes it more difficult to believe that such people really do exist.
Well when you remember that anonymous donors tend to be more wealthy than most, it makes a little more sense. Spending money when you have a lot of it just doesn't seem like a big deal, even if it's a waste of money by anyone elses standards.
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:54 PM   #31
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Anonymous donors, on the whole, I would say exhibit more altruism then many, but there are many reasons one might donate anonymously.
The rich travel in circles, the other rich know who is donating what. The charity and their other high donors know who is doing the anonymous donation. However, an anonymous donation does keep the pesky public away (in support, hate, love, or apathy, whatever that pesky public feeling is swaying towards this week). With most anonymous donations the "people who matter" know who the donator is, but the general public does not.
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:34 PM   #32
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I have the weird personal opinion that charity should be as anonymous and without direct benefit to yourself as possible. As such I'm against tax writeoffs for charity, and do not claim what I donate. However, I understand that my idealistic, wacky beliefs aren't likely to be very practical, so I don't mind the number of people and companies who take advantage of tax breaks. Lest anyone think I am trying to hold myself up as a great altruistic example, I haven't been actively helping many people with my time in years. (As a religious aside, that's another problem I have with the religious arguments some people use. People should do good regardless of whether a God is watching or not, whether it helps them get into a Heaven or not.)
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:40 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Gauche
As a religious aside, that's another problem I have with the religious arguments some people use. People should do good regardless of whether a God is watching or not, whether it helps them get into a Heaven or not
I could not agree with you more on that. You do something good just because you can and want to.

As for the tax breaks, I am under the impression that you have to donate a large sum of money to even be eligible for a tax break. We don't make much money, and we have two kids to provide for (combined income is about 40K a year in my household), but we donate to many numerous charities every year, in small amounts monthly, which are deducted from our paychecks. I suppose if you tally it all up, my husband and I probably give around $500-$600 a year. I know it isn't much, but if we were made out of money, we'd be able to give even more. I asked my tax preparer about the tax break, and he said in order to be qualified for that, you have to donate a lot more (I didn't ask for a dollar figure, I guess that's just way out of my league anyway).
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:31 PM   #34
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it was me and my mom growing up.. she worked constantly to keep food on the table
Gee, I don't recall your name being Flub....


And its a shame that you couldn't get off your ass and help her if that is your story. I know I helped my parents when I was 14 years old. They were working a total of 6 part-time jobs then. But I guess you felt it was all up to your parents to make ends meet.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Eglath Astaldo
No, I was talking about a family of 4 living together making 160k. You can live well off that.
You are insane. With taxes, bills, food, gas and the whole list of other things that goes with being a family, 160k is not that much money these days.

Originally Posted by Eglath
Grats man, most people work hard and bust their ass. I went to one of the top rated high schools on the west coast, where I earned a 4.2 GPA, played 2 varsity sports, won 2 championships, and still managed to do over 400 hours of community service in 4 years. I busted my ass, and I see nothing wrong with giving back. Sounds right to me. I continue to bust my ass in college, and I continue to do service, just got my grades back, and it hasn't been holding me back.
Good for you. That is what you want to do. Forcing other people to do it is wrong. Once again, why force people to do something because they worked to get where they are?

Originally Posted by Eglath
There are many arguments against a non professional military. One a monthers are not going to be as good as the average soldier. The military has told us time and again they don't want non professional soldiers because they don't work as well in the machine. Same reason drafted soldiers suck in most cases. The homeless and the needy want and will take anyone and anything they can get in the form of help.
Who says they have to fight? They could be used to protect borders, guard nuclear power plants, guard water treatment plants, taught how to use biological weapon detection systems to help protect cites, help patrol airports or serve food in the cafeteria to the regular troops. There are allot of things that regular citizens could do to serve in the military besides be a soldier. You frown upon helping those who protect the freedom you and I enjoy. Why is that? Why do you want to force me to do community service, but don't want to be forced to put on a uniform one weekend a month?

For the record, I am against forced enlistment in the military. Just playing devils advocate.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:47 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Gee, I don't recall your name being Flub....
What the fuck did you mention my name for?
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