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Old 08-14-2008, 10:05 AM   #1
Sociopathic bully?
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Default This is among the most messed up things I've ever read

BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- The crime was meticulously planned, the killer choreographing every step from his surveillance of the doomed family to the videotaped torture of one of his youngest victims.

Yet something as simple as a locked back door, or fiercer family dogs, might have turned Joseph Edward Duncan III away.

Duncan's federal sentencing hearing opened Wednesday with U.S. Attorney Thomas Moss outlining how the convicted pedophile terrorized the Groene family, all because he wanted to "live out his fantasy" and exact revenge on society for perceived wrongs.

Duncan pleaded guilty last year to 10 federal charges in the kidnapping of two siblings, ages 8 and 9, and the murder of the older child. The jury will determine whether he should serve life in prison or be executed.

Moss told jurors they'd have to watch video footage of the sexual torture of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, filmed shortly before Duncan killed him.

Duncan forced 8-year-old Shasta Groene, the sole survivor, to watch the video. He also made her watch as he killed her brother, jurors were told.

Duncan, who is representing himself, told the jury Wednesday that most of what Moss said was fair and accurate "up to the point of what occurred at the campground."

He said he would testify so he could try to "clarify things."

His standby legal counsel, Judy Clarke, has said Duncan doesn't plan to offer any mitigation, such as evidence of his own traumatic childhood.

Shasta's videotaped statements to police will tell her story in court. It's not known if she will offer a victim impact statement.

Duncan's past is littered with arrests and prison time for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the 1996 slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle and is charged with the 1997 killing of a young boy in Riverside County, California.

In 2005, he went to Idaho. Duncan broke into the Groenes' Coeur d'Alene home, bludgeoning 13-year-old Slade Groene, his mother, Brenda Groene, and her fiance, Mark McKenzie, before abducting Shasta and Dylan. Duncan has already pleaded guilty in state court for the three murders; the federal case concerns the crimes against Shasta and Dylan.

Duncan had researched police investigation procedures and took steps to avoid getting caught, Moss told jurors. He bought too-large tennis shoes at a thrift store so no bloody footprints would lead police to him. He wiped down shotgun shells before loading them so there'd be no fingerprints. He loaded the first shot with BB pellets because he thought he'd have to shoot the family dogs and didn't necessarily want to kill them.

He had a video camera, a computer and a GPS device filled with locations he thought would be handy, such as potential campsites, Moss said. He brought with him the framing hammer he used to bludgeon the older victims.

On the night of the murders, Duncan crept across a field to the home, using a low-visibility red-bulb flashlight to guide his way. He peered into a window and saw the children sleeping. One of the family dogs saw him and growled, frightening him enough that he retreated to the fence, Moss said.

"He made a decision: `If that back door is locked, I'm going to abort,"' Moss said Duncan later told police.

When he turned the handle, it opened. Then the terror began.

The dogs scurried away when they saw Duncan's gun, Moss said. Duncan bound the family, took the youngest children outside and beat the others to death.

Then he drove away with Dylan and Shasta, making sure they knew he had killed their relatives as he headed into the Montana wilderness.

The trio camped for several weeks at the end of a remote road. When Duncan left the camp, he tied the children to a tree with a dog chain.

On June 22, 2005, Duncan left Shasta at the camp, taking Dylan to a cabin, where he videotaped himself sexually abusing and torturing the boy.

"Heinous, cruel and depraved are tough words in the English language, but none of these words ... fully express the outrage of what you will see," Moss told jurors.

After they returned to the campsite, the first thing Duncan did was show Shasta the video, Moss said.

Then, at some point during the next four days, Shasta heard a gunshot and turned to see Dylan clutching his stomach where he'd been hit. She watched as Duncan walked over to Dylan, held the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The gun didn't fire, Moss said, so Duncan reloaded and fired again.

Duncan wrapped the body in a tarp, threw it on the campfire and let it burn until it was reduced to ashes. He then took Shasta back to Coeur d'Alene, stopping for a meal at a Denny's restaurant, where a waitress recognized the girl and called police.

Dylan "deserves the justice that only you can provide," Moss told the jury.
It's cases like this that make me wish we could get a capital punishment structure in place I could fully support. I don't think there's any chance this guy doesn't fry though, in this world and the next.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:35 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post

It's cases like this that make me wish we could get a capital punishment structure in place I could fully support. I don't think there's any chance this guy doesn't fry though, in this world and the next.
I think we should kill him slowly... with a dull knife... with no anestesia... but then again I think that someone who murders a kid in front of his sister and makes her watch while he does it... deserves the worst suffering we can give him.

I know for some reason, a lot of people think we should just pat him on the head and put him to sleep peacefully... it boggles my mind. Those people will probably disagree with my suggestion on how to handle him
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
This is among the most messed up things I've ever read
Well then, thanks for sharin'!
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:07 PM   #4
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ive said it before and ill say it again.

Eye for a Eye. Tooth for a tooth.

since you cannot kill the guy 5 times. there has to be another solution.

I think some of the tortures that hasn't been enacted in recent memory would be to:

Slice his belly open so his entrails fall out. making sure not to hit anything vital.

Then. and this is where it gets fun. Stretch them out some 20 feet should do.

make sure you have a good amount of slow burning charcoal under the entrails.

Light fire at the Far end of the entrails and sit back. making sure he sees you bring out the video recorder. once you have his entrails burnt up nicly.

start with the toes and use a hammer. dont smack the spine you need that in good shape so he can feel everything.

once the fucker can't move anything at all. un tie the bastard and pile more wood on him and light it.

Sounds about right. eh?
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:57 PM   #5
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It's always a place like Denny's where they end up being caught or spotted

"Hey... you hungry? Yeah ... that camping trip was a bit rough and I'm starving after all that hard work out in the woods .... oh wait I think I just passed a Denny's .... hold on ... flippin a bitch at this next turn ...."
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:51 PM   #6
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Finally you all see it my way, about time.
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