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Old 08-18-2004, 06:41 PM   #1
chukzombi
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Default John Kerry blasts himself for flip flopping on troop realignment plan

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129304,00.html

Kerry Blasts Bush's Troop Realignment Plan
Wednesday, August 18, 2004

CINCINNATI ó John Kerry (search), telling fellow combat veterans he's their "true brother in arms," said Wednesday that President Bush's plan to withdraw U.S. troops from Europe and Asia would weaken U.S. security and embolden nuclear-armed North Korea.

"This is clearly the wrong signal to send at the wrong time," the Democratic presidential candidate said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars' (search) 105th annual convention, borrowing a line Bush has used against him.
Oh No looks like John Kerry is a man of his convictions and thinks leaving germany might reincarnate Adolf Hitler!!!


wait a sec
whats this???

from Hannity.com (oh no its partisan!! but these are all Kerry's own words which can easily be found on the net, google= your friend)
Kerry Is Against Troop Realignment

Today John Kerry Criticized The President For Realigning Our Troops. "Finally, I want to say something about the plan that the President announced on Monday to withdraw 70,000 troops from Asia and Europe. Nobody wants to bring troops home more than those of us who have fought in foreign wars. But it needs to be done at the right time and in a sensible way. This is not that time or that way. Let's be clear. The President's vaguely stated plan does not strengthen our hand in the war on terror. It in no way relieves the strain on our overextended military personnel. It doesn't even begin until 2006, and it takes ten years to achieve." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At The Veterans Of Foreign Wars Convention, Cincinnati, OH, 8/18/04)

Kerry Is For Troop Realignment

In August 2004, Kerry Said: "I Think We Can Significantly Change The Deployment Of Troops, Not Just There But Elsewhere In The World. In The Korean Peninsula Perhaps, In Europe Perhaps." STEPHANOPOULOS: "Can you promise that American troops will be home by the end of your first term?" SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY: "I will have significant, enormous reduction in the level of troops. We will probably have a continued presence of some kind, certainly in the region. If the diplomacy that I believe can be put in place can work, I think we can significantly change the deployment of troops, not just there but elsewhere in the world. In the Korean peninsula perhaps, in Europe perhaps. There are great possibilities open to us. But this administration has had very little imagination, enormous sort of ideological fixation and, frankly, took its eye off the war against al Qaeda and the war on terror shifting it to Iraq at enormous cost to the American people and to the legitimacy of the war on terror." (John Kerry, ABC's "This Week," 8/1/04)

In April 2004, Kerry Hoped For The "Reduction Of American Presence" On The Korean Peninsula. Q: "You talk about the overextension of the troops. Do you think this course is ultimately going to lead to the reinstitution of the draft?" SEN. KERRY: "I hope not. I would be against that in the current form. I don't think we need it now, particularly if we did the proper diplomacy. The overall effort of a president right now ought to be really to try to find ways to reduce the overexposure, in a sense, of America's commitments. A proper approach to the Korean peninsula, for instance, should include the deployment of troops, the unresolved issues of the 1950s and ultimately, hopefully, could result in the reduction of American presence, ultimately. Those are the kinds of things that we ought to be trying to achieve in our foreign policy." (John Kerry, News Conference, 4/14/04)

In January 2004, Kerry Claimed He Would Reduce "Overall Need For Deployment Of American Forces" In Korea And Germany. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "The troops of the United States of America are overextended. Their deployments are too long. The families are hurting at home because they lose money from the private sector when they're called up, and they get paid less in the military, and nobody makes it up to them. The fact is if we are going to maintain this level of commitment on a global basis - for the moment we have to, because of what's happened - we need an additional two divisions. One is a combat division, and one is a support division. And that's the responsible thing to do. I've also said, responsibly, that's temporary, because I intend to be a president who goes back to the United Nations, rejoins the community of nations, brings other boots on the ground to help us in the world, and reduces the overall need for deployment of American forces in the globe - and I mean North Korea, Germany and the rest of the world where we can begin to set up a new architecture of participation of other countries." (ABC News/The [Manchester] Union Leader Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/22/04)

In 1990, Kerry Voted To Reduce The Number Of U.S. Military Personnel In Europe. Fiscal 1991 Defense Authorization - Forces In Europe. McCain, R-Ariz., motion to table (kill) the Conrad, D-N.D., amendment to reduce by 30,000 (to 231,855) the number of U.S. military personnel stationed in Europe. (S. 2884, CQ Vote #213: Motion Agreed To 59-40: R 40-5; D 19-35, 8/3/90, Kerry Voted Nay)

In November 1990, Kerry Complained: "We're Currently Paying For 300,000 Troops To Be In Germany To Save The Germans From The Soviet Troops That They're Paying To Leave Then To Stay. It Doesn't Make Sense And I Think We Could Help Massachusetts By Using That Money Here." EDYE TARBOX: "Thank you. Mr. Kerry, Massachusetts gets about the sixth biggest chunk of defense spending. Given the pressure nationwide to take a peace dividend and cut defense spending, how do you propose to keep defense jobs in our state?" SEN. JOHN KERRY: "Well I intend to try to keep defense jobs in the state the very way I have been doing it. During the course of the last few weeks I have been working diligently on behalf of those defense programs which we ought to have. Those that makes sense for a strong defense for this country and that are realistic in terms of the new threat, as defined by the changes in Europe, and the Soviet Union and the rest of the world. ... I think we ought to stay on the cutting edge, and I think we ought to be doing an enormous amount more to guarantee research and development. We've seen a horrible shift in the last few years away from civilian R & D into military R & D and R & D that doesn't make sense. But we should not be building a B-2 bomber for 858 million dollars for one bomber. We should not be building more MX missiles to deal with the Soviet Union, and we ought to be making savings in our troops in Europe. We're currently paying for 300,000 troops to be in Germany to save the Germans from the Soviet troops that they're paying to leave then to stay. It doesn't make sense and I think we could help Massachusetts by using that money here." (Democrat Senatorial Candidates Debate, Boston, MA, 11/3/90)
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:11 PM   #2
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Oh man, does anybody bother to Lexis/Nexis their candidates any more? I mean this is bush league that his staffers aren't controlling what is being said and making sure he isn't contradicting himself - and that goes for EVERY candidate of ANY party... I mean, we're not even talking about switching positions with a decade in between, we're talking 3-8 months... man. I honestly feel sorry for Kerry that his campaign is dropping the ball like they are.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:30 PM   #3
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Well Laird the Dems know whats going on but what can they do but try to and support Kerry becuase he was all they had to work with.

Dean shot himself in the leg, Hillary wouldnt run , Gephardt was over the hill, Gore wouldnt run Edwards was too new, Lieberman too centrist and Obama is too young. All they had left was some guy named Kerry who on the surface looked perfect. War hero, very liberal but with some centrist tendencies which would appeal to the right side. It looked perfect and what good would it have done to dig very deep into his past? they had nobody else. I wouldnt be surprised that they knew all this would come out which is why the smear campaign against Bush was so harsh this year.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:02 PM   #4
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Hahah This Kerry is a friggen joke.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:09 PM   #5
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Well I don't know about all that. My comment was more along the line that every candidate has a team of handlers whose job it is to ensure the candidate stays on message and avoids landmines like this. They should have a quick reference book with every statement Kerry has ever made on a possible issue... If they don;t have the info at hand and the candidate hasn't been briefed as to how to respond to a particular question they have to have the discipline to say to the reporter, "Thats an issue that deserves some reflection. It wouldn't be responsible to offer a position without looking at all the aspects of the proposal. Give us a chance and we'll do an analysis and get back to you with a comprehensive answer." But no, politicians want to always look like they know everything about anything so they fly off at the mouth and then people like me ae left scrambling to put Humpty back together again. Like I said, this goes for both sides of the aisle and is not a Kerry slam.

Here is the Kerry slam... its far easier to hold a consistant position than it is to tell every group what they want to hear... too hard to remember who you said what to and in the age of Lexis/Nexis it WILL bite you on the ass. Kerry has two problems, a divergent base that wants drastically different things requiring him to vascilate a lot and a history of being on every side of an issue that no matter what he says, the opposition will be able to find a statement he made that contradicts what he is saying now. Its a problem a long time in the making.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:28 PM   #6
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I agree Laird, my point was the democrats have no choice but to play possum with these allegations or just scoff them without explanation Kerry is all they got left. Kerry has been avoiding press conferences for weeks becuase of the swiftboat ads and why on earth he had to open his big yap today against Bush's troops redployment plan is anyones guess. Maybe he figured becuase he thought of it first(he thinks) he would go contrarion on Bush and try to destroy it thus ruining the plan for both parties.

He pulled the "if i cant use it then nobody can!!" manuever it seems.


My favorite part of the VFW speech today was the icey reception Kerry received from veterans compared to the standing ovation for George Bush the other day.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:46 PM   #7
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...hdk10308181644

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...ry_ohdk103.jpg

Wed Aug 18,12:47 PM ET


War veterans Jere Hill, middle, from Warham, Mass., and Robert Gibson, right, from Lexington, Ky., stand with their backs turned during Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry (news - web sites)'s speech at the 105th Veterans of Foreign Wars National Convention in Cincinnati on Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004. Man in foreground is unidentified. Kerry received a polite if not overwhelmingly positive reaction from the VFW. But there was a clear divide, with scores of veterans sittings with their arms folded while others clapped. (AP Photo/David Kohl)
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:57 AM   #8
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You guys are a joke!

Kerry Is Against Troop Realignment

Today John Kerry Criticized The President For Realigning Our Troops. "Finally, I want to say something about the plan that the President announced on Monday to withdraw 70,000 troops from Asia and Europe. Nobody wants to bring troops home more than those of us who have fought in foreign wars. But it needs to be done at the right time and in a sensible way. This is not that time or that way. Let's be clear. The President's vaguely stated plan does not strengthen our hand in the war on terror. It in no way relieves the strain on our overextended military personnel. It doesn't even begin until 2006, and it takes ten years to achieve." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At The Veterans Of Foreign Wars Convention, Cincinnati, OH, 8/18/04)

Kerry Is For Troop Realignment

In August 2004, Kerry Said: "I Think We Can Significantly Change The Deployment Of Troops, Not Just There But Elsewhere In The World. In The Korean Peninsula Perhaps, In Europe Perhaps." STEPHANOPOULOS: "Can you promise that American troops will be home by the end of your first term?" SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY: "I will have significant, enormous reduction in the level of troops. We will probably have a continued presence of some kind, certainly in the region. If the diplomacy that I believe can be put in place can work, I think we can significantly change the deployment of troops, not just there but elsewhere in the world. In the Korean peninsula perhaps, in Europe perhaps. There are great possibilities open to us. But this administration has had very little imagination, enormous sort of ideological fixation and, frankly, took its eye off the war against al Qaeda and the war on terror shifting it to Iraq at enormous cost to the American people and to the legitimacy of the war on terror." (John Kerry, ABC's "This Week," 8/1/04)
The only flip-flop there is in your retarded minds.

Pay close attention to...

"We will probably have a continued presence of some kind, certainly in the region. If the diplomacy that I believe can be put in place can work, I think we can significantly change the deployment of troops, not just there but elsewhere in the world. In the Korean peninsula perhaps, in Europe perhaps. There are great possibilities open to us. But this administration has had very little imagination, enormous sort of ideological fixation and, frankly, took its eye off the war against al Qaeda and the war on terror shifting it to Iraq at enormous cost to the American people and to the legitimacy of the war on terror."

and compare with...

"Finally, I want to say something about the plan that the President announced on Monday to withdraw 70,000 troops from Asia and Europe. Nobody wants to bring troops home more than those of us who have fought in foreign wars. But it needs to be done at the right time and in a sensible way."

I am sure even you retards can notice that Kerry is criticizing Bush's "go it alone" handling of troop movement. Kerry isn't against troop realignment. He is criticizing how it is being done.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:01 AM   #9
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Ah.. you left out a critical statement..

KERRY: "I will have significant, enormous reduction in the level of troops.
More "signficant and enormous" then 70k? He didnt say so I guess its anything better then Bush's plan?

"Kerry, while campaigning in Ohio, apprears to grow a tail and horns then proceeds to eat live puppies on stage! The crowd goes wild chanting "Anyone but Bush!!"
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:08 AM   #10
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So? That's not a flip-flop Rheaton.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:22 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
So? That's not a flip-flop Rheaton.
Sure it is. At the very minimum its a flip-flop of tone. Kerry suggests "significant and enormous" cuts, but then attacks Bush on 70k? In order to get an idea of what number he might be considering, we'd have to go back to 1990 when he complained about the 300k troops in Germany and how that money would be better for Mass if kept in Mass.

You boy is a flip-flop no matter how you cut it. I know the diversion is to ignore the obvious change in position and start debating the numbers and timetable...but no one is buying it.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Rheaton
Sure it is. At the very minimum its a flip-flop of tone.
ROFLMAO!!!

Flip-flop "of tone".

What's next? Flip-flop of context? Flip-flop of innuendo? Flip-flop of scope?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Idiot.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:41 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
ROFLMAO!!!

Flip-flop "of tone".

What's next? Flip-flop of context? Flip-flop of innuendo? Flip-flop of scope?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Idiot.
Its a classic example of how he will say whatever wants to be heard today, but tomorrow may be something entirely different. He attacks the fact that there were 300k troops in Germany, promised "enormous and significant" reductions.. then a few days later comes out and climbs all over Bush for wanting to shift, relocate and reduce by 70k... Wtf?

...no, sir... joo the idiot for defending this joker.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:52 AM   #14
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Keep chanting your mantra of "flip-flop", Rheaton. The fact remains that you are going to suffer 4 years with Kerry, or suffer 4 years with a lame duck President.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:32 PM   #15
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Kerry swears up and down redeploying troops was a great thing for america and its safety and that it would save money. Bush says it it becomes a heinous incompetent act that undermines the war on terror and insults the allies around the world. That my friends is a flip flop. Perhaps there are 2 John Kerry's. I still dont know which twin is the evil one though. Both?
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