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Old 08-22-2004, 02:08 PM   #26
Gerick
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
Bumble, you do understand that people CHOOSE to join the military? They are not being forced. No ones' "kids" are being forced to go. There aren't any 12 year olds in Iraq. I would like to hear your military experience. You keep running on about it, but I have never heard of your military days. Please enlighten us.
I seem to remember ending up at the post office when I turned 18... oh thats right, your only forced to register for the draft if you have a penis! equal rights indeed, guess they don't give a damn about my moral objection to killing, my religious objection to killing etc.

You know why I think being 18 and drafted is unfair? I can be missing my legs by the time the war is over but I can not have a fucking beer? what kind of shit is that?

Also, why should anyone fight for a cause they don't beleave in, I don't beleave we should go around and liberate everyone because we are not the world's police force... quickest way to get our asses bombed off the planet.

I am in the clear, I have 4 medical reasons why I can not be drafted but the nice thing is they only cause problems with military service, aside from that they do not bug me.

The very fact that I still care about OTHERS dying for something they might not beleave in shows this extends outside of a selfish desire.

Did any mother raise a child just to watch his flag covered coffin lowered into the cold earth? Did any mother want to see her child drug off by MP to have his head shaved, his will broken and to be dehumanlized?

Hell No.

Don't feed me that "pride" bullshit, if your proud your kid made you look better in death your a sick fuck, if you think they are great for dying in a war they did not beleave in, then you did not instill a backbone in your kid and you should be ashamed for not backing them in their right to live.

War is a racket, its about profit and scratching backs and with all the backs he scratched with iraq I am sure his many connections are working to repay him in 2004. bastard.

excuse my cursing, this topic is a sore spot with me as my brother could be pulled into a war.

Last edited by Gerick; 08-22-2004 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 08-22-2004, 03:03 PM   #27
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Your post would be more than masturbation if we actually had a draft going on. Its got a good stroke though, keep practicing.
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Old 08-22-2004, 03:37 PM   #28
Alauradana
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Originally Posted by Gerick
I seem to remember ending up at the post office when I turned 18... oh thats right, your only forced to register for the draft if you have a penis! equal rights indeed, guess they don't give a damn about my moral objection to killing, my religious objection to killing etc.
.

There is no draft going on. The only way the people who are in Iraq right now are there is by THEIR choice. Having said that, what is your point?

And if there is a draft (which if you go the Selective Service website you will see that is a rumor), that is the way our country is set up. We would not be here had we not had drafts. This is a free country and in times of war, we can't sit around and say "well gee, I guess I disagree so I'm out". I guess that would be the real telltale between men and boys. I also have never been a big supporter of women in war. If you would like to see your sister and mother in combat over you, well I think that speaks volumes about you as well.
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Old 08-22-2004, 04:22 PM   #29
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You cons are despicable. Show me where he said there is a draft going on? All he did was say that he had to register for the draft. However, the ruse of the National Guard is sending people to war. They recruit people and promise them college money. Then they send them to war. That doesn't mean that these people believe in any war at any time. Many don't believe in this war. Yet they are forced to fight it. And what's really sick is you cons- Alaura, Wildane, Flub, Shard etc. etc. sit back and let people who object to this war fight your battles for you. You are all pussies. You guys are the saddest excuse for Americans that I have ever seen (Cheney included).
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Old 08-22-2004, 04:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bumbler
And what's really sick is you cons- Alaura, Wildane, Flub, Shard etc. etc. sit back and let people who object to this war fight your battles for you. You are all pussies.
Bumblefuck, you are a fucking pussy for not being in Afghanistan. You said you supported that war, but you are not there. So, on top of being a pussy, you are a goddamn hypocrite.
Originally Posted by bumbler
You guys are the saddest excuse for Americans that I have ever seen (Cheney included).
Coming from someone who often paraphrases articles way out of context just to bash our President, I'll take that as a compliment.
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Old 08-22-2004, 05:08 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
You cons are despicable. Show me where he said there is a draft going on? All he did was say that he had to register for the draft. However, the ruse of the National Guard is sending people to war. They recruit people and promise them college money. Then they send them to war. That doesn't mean that these people believe in any war at any time. Many don't believe in this war. Yet they are forced to fight it. And what's really sick is you cons- Alaura, Wildane, Flub, Shard etc. etc. sit back and let people who object to this war fight your battles for you. You are all pussies. You guys are the saddest excuse for Americans that I have ever seen (Cheney included).
Do you understand the national guard provides training for combat and skills for use outside the armed forces ? Do you understand that they are fully briefed on the possibility of going to war anywhere at any time ?

Do you have any sort of a clue, err nevermind you are a lost cause.
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Old 08-22-2004, 09:42 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
You cons are despicable. Show me where he said there is a draft going on? All he did was say that he had to register for the draft. However, the ruse of the National Guard is sending people to war. They recruit people and promise them college money. Then they send them to war. That doesn't mean that these people believe in any war at any time. Many don't believe in this war. Yet they are forced to fight it. And what's really sick is you cons- Alaura, Wildane, Flub, Shard etc. etc. sit back and let people who object to this war fight your battles for you. You are all pussies. You guys are the saddest excuse for Americans that I have ever seen (Cheney included).
Bumble I hate to blow your narrow-minded view of the world, but the National Guard was formed to BACK UP THE MILITARY. It is not there to provide free education to people. There is a program that you can JOIN OF FREE WILL that says they will pay for your education, and you will pay them for it by signing up to so many years of service. If you are stupid enough to join the guard and think you will never be called upon, then you are gambling. What the fuck do you think they train them one weekend each month and two weeks each year to do? If someone is a conscientous objector to war, they have no business joining the guard. It is made crystal clear to recruits that they will be serving and may be called to active duty. Each and every member of the guard knows that and SWEARS to defend our nation. Save that nauseating piece for someone who is stupid enough to believe the National Guard is a 4H club.

And you can bite my ass Bumble, my family has served and died for the cause. You haven't done shit. I have asked you repeatedly for your military service, and guess what? You are a coward who didn't serve according to your own logic. You go to bed each night in a free country for others who served and made it that way for you. You should go to bed each night and thank them that you are in America. If you were in prewar Iraq, you wouldn't have made it past puberty.
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Old 08-22-2004, 11:26 PM   #33
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I hate getting called a pussy by a jellyfish. It just seems so unseemly. And being called UnAmerican by a jellyfish is even more disconcerting. I didnt realize they were political creatures at all.

Of course this jellyfish has short term memory issues and seems to have forgotten the attack he made on an active duty member of the military right on this very board. By his reasoning its a soldiers duty to choose his fights and if he doesnt, he is an idiot.

It was idiot, right Bumble? Thats what you called him for honoring the committment he made to his country? I dont want to quote you out of context or anything. I could link and quote and make life a bit easier for every one, but why bother. You know you said and you know why you said it.

P.S. Gericks post was like watching a Sean Penn monologue with slightly less facial contortiions. I am sure it was important to him, but it really lacked any larger meaning. If we were operating under a draft currently it might, but until then, its just teen aged Rock the Vote angst.
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Old 08-22-2004, 11:30 PM   #34
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Yeah, well, that "teen Rock the Vote angst" is overwhelmingly popular this year (and incidentally, mostly Democrat).

Sure, reinstatingthe draft would be political suicide... but what if a politician has nothing to lose? What if he's coming off a re-election, and in his final term?

That is the major reason I would like to see Bush go.
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Old 08-22-2004, 11:39 PM   #35
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Your major reason that Bush has to go is because he might reinstate the draft if he gets re-elected?

And define overwhelmingly popular? You mean 40% of the 18 to 25 year old crowd was lured to events to register to vote by such high powered rock and roll icons like Bon Jovi and.... well.... wait... it will come to me.

No, its not coming. All I can think of is Bruce Springsteen and I think he died in 1994 right after he released the title song to the movie Philidelphia.

This vote will not be decided by the free concert in the park crowd. It will be decided where it always is. The really really old people. What else do they have to do now that they cant make trips to Canada to buy drugs on Uncle Sams dime.
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Old 08-22-2004, 11:52 PM   #36
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I'm sure neither one of us, Shard, really follows MTV or anything, but they have this site:

http://www.rockthevote.com/

Also they have this:

http://www.mtv.com/chooseorlose/

So yes, if you're looking for specific celebrities who are trying to motivate people to vote, you're not going to find a whole lot. But there are a lot of people out there who would like to see voter apathy decrease, myself included, and you too I'm sure.

Not only that, you find numerous blogs (mostly of idiots, true) talking about politics. One gets the sense voting is much more popular among young voters than it was 4 years ago, just by Googling for a few minutes.

This vote will not be decided by the free concert in the park crowd. It will be decided where it always is. The really really old people. What else do they have to do now that they cant make trips to Canada to buy drugs on Uncle Sams dime.
This much is true. But I don't think that older people are going to outnumber younger people as badly this year as previous elections.

Also, Uncle Sam's dime? Wasn't under the impression taxpayer dollars were paying for Canadian pharmaceuticals.
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Old 08-23-2004, 12:00 AM   #37
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They arent any more, but thats another thread.

Voter apathy is the price of living in a democracy. Its all about choices and more people find their energy is best spent elsewhere. Would I like to see more people vote? Nope, not if they arent taking the time to educate themselves on the candidates and issues.
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Old 08-23-2004, 12:09 AM   #38
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Oddly enough I'm fairly sure it's the idiots who are out voting in droves, not those who take the time to learn. You know, that whole bit about propaganda being more effective than the truth.
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Old 08-23-2004, 05:25 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ares
Oddly enough I'm fairly sure it's the idiots who are out voting in droves
Ah, democracy at its finest, where the people decide who shall lead them. Problem is, have you met the people? We have people who can't decide what shoes to wear with what outfit voting for one of the most powerful positions in the world and that's pretty damn scarey. Of course, we have two candidates who spend more time accusing the other of smear tactics than they do on real issues, and that's also pretty damn scarey. If either of them would just be the bigger man and drop the pettiness, then that is probably who I'll vote for, but I just don't see it happening. What we need is less time worrying about how to tie which guy to which "independent" group and more time figuring out how to get us out of our fucking mess.

Sorry if I got off topic, but it's Monday morning and I have a greater feeling of impending doom than usual.
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Old 08-23-2004, 12:14 PM   #40
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I do not think I need to do anything more than work for my country, everything I build, every thing I create helps my country, every dime I pay in taxes helps my country and every day I live past highschool I am using the education that every tax payer had a hand in.

Our country does not EVER have to fight a war to survive unless it is OUR soil under attack, iraq did not bomb us, iraq did not drop our towers.

You can beleave this cock and bull magicshow bush pulls off where he turns a picture of osama into saddam, you can beleave the link extends futher than q's shared by the terror group and the country, think whatever you want, but don't tell me I do nothing for my country and don't tell me I do not honor my country because I don't want to die for it because I still do plenty for it and I will continue to, it is just a shame that all my hard work, all my tax dollars go out the fucking window as soon as you do not want to go to war.

It is a crying shame the only value my country sees in me is a moving target, and if I were to dodge the draft all my contributions are ignored as nothing.

With all the money we have in military, it has been proven by a general that if we re-directed it we could make america almost a fortress to invading forces, all we need to do is pull our boats in, recall our troops and set up a missle defense system.

Ohhh silly me, you can't make money off a war if your not off starting them!
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:05 PM   #41
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That idea would work Gerick if we were self-sufficient and never left our shores. If we just sat here holed up behind walls, we wouldn't be the power we are today.

I am glad you feel your work is for your country. I work for myself. I pay my taxes, those are my dues to live in this country.

I guess your special and should never have to fight for your country like the many brave ones before you who have died for your right to "dodge" this imaginary draft you see going on and bitch about our government.
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:36 PM   #42
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Thank god we havent been attacked on our own soil recently, eh Gerick.
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Gerick
I do not think I need to do anything more than work for my country, everything I build, every thing I create helps my country, every dime I pay in taxes helps my country and every day I live past highschool I am using the education that every tax payer had a hand in.
If my taxes paid for your education and they graduated you, I want a refund.

Please don't pretend that your motives are altruistic. We both know that every time you go to work, you aren't thinking of what you're doing for your country. You're thinking "Man, I can't wait til payday" or "Is it time to go home yet?" or even "Oh boy, this'll make a nice addition to the ole booger collection!" You haven't served your country, you've served yourself. The fact that "your country" benefits in any way is incidental. I'd be willing to bet that you wouldn't pay taxes if it weren't required of you.
Originally Posted by Gerick
It is a crying shame the only value my country sees in me is a moving target, and if I were to dodge the draft all my contributions are ignored as nothing.
What contributions? That's kinda like "Man, all those people I DIDN'T kill and they put me away for just one lousy murder"
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Old 08-23-2004, 02:23 PM   #44
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Tell it to my 18 year old brother who was DRAFTED in 1967.

Oh yes they DO get forced. Just not yet for the Prez little project
Chiteng, Bumbleroot is talking specifically about this war. His own words "If this war in Iraq"..
It's true. Nobody was forced to sign up for the military regarding this war in Iraq. The soldiers in Iraq are there because they enlisted (on their own) to serve their country. God Bless our Troops.
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:48 PM   #45
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If we continue to support acting like sparta a draft WILL happen, that is my concern.

Bush has slipped up and eluded to having several more wars as a possiblity during his speechs, and in his final term I do not doubt he would call a draft, who has to worry about political suicide when your done with politics?
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:56 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Gerick
If we continue to support acting like sparta a draft WILL happen, that is my concern.

Bush has slipped up and eluded to having several more wars as a possiblity during his speechs, and in his final term I do not doubt he would call a draft, who has to worry about political suicide when your done with politics?
Go ahead and link all those slip ups Gerick.
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Old 08-23-2004, 10:50 PM   #47
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I dont care how many wars it takes and who is leading, we need to finish what Al Queda started. In this particular election there are 2 candidates, my vote is going to the one I think will finish it.
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Old 08-24-2004, 06:22 AM   #48
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Its people who protest wars that show our countries weaknesses and there fore people get the notion that we are defeatable b/c not only are we waging a war on foregn soil we are waging one at home.

"United we stand divided we fall" sound familar? Anyone who will not support the Congressional and Presedental actions should be sent to jail. I mean come on its not like congress couldnt have stop bush he only gets 90 days to wage war with out them.

So before you go whining about shit make sure you understand how it works

My military experince I have been medically banned from any Army, etc except the Salvation Army. My knees are to bad to march and I can shoot a rifle due to shoulder problems but your damn straight Id pick up a rifle for family and friends regardless of why the war started and if that aint important to you get the fuck outta my country.
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Old 08-24-2004, 07:17 AM   #49
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Edit. I can't believe this.

I thought you were better people than that.
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Old 08-24-2004, 07:39 AM   #50
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Grats Iannyen! You have gotten better at ambiguity! (233)
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