Cold fusion

[SupportTank]

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-...ion-video.html

Soo.. another scam? Or is this one real?

Hard to say. the proof will be in the future for this one. apparently it uses 400watts to run. but produces 12400 watts. And they have had one running for 2 years without any input at all but running off its own power output and the hydrogen fuel ( which will eventually run out so no its not perpetual ).

Scientists are skeptical, and I dont blame them in the slightest. and they are skeptical cuzz this guys not telling them how it works so no one can verify.

and honestly. I can't blame him. If you just invented the worlds most valuable item. would you tell others how you did it?

Or would you just go in to production like this guy apparently is doing?

[Aolynd]

Originally Posted by SupportTank

Scientists are skeptical, and I dont blame them in the slightest. and they are skeptical cuzz this guys not telling them how it works so no one can verify.

and honestly. I can't blame him. If you just invented the worlds most valuable item. would you tell others how you did it?

Or would you just go in to production like this guy apparently is doing?

That's what actually gives me hope for this. I actually like that their answer is basically 'We don't need to prove shit to you.'

If it works they'll be able to give everyone the finger when they arrive to the nobel awards in their limos.

[Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Aolynd

That's what actually gives me hope for this. I actually like that their answer is basically 'We don't need to prove shit to you.'

If it works they'll be able to give everyone the finger when they arrive to the nobel awards in their limos.

In their limos, being pulled by diamond encrusted eunuchs with their harems in the back seat.

[Echelon Forester]

cold fusion never seems to get out of the bath tub. we never get to see any science and it seems void of explanations. if these reactions occur, it seems more like a rare phenomenon atm.

i like plasma fusion reactors. it would bring a tear to Scotty's eye...

JET

JET plasma burn

TORE SUPRA

Long burn

ITER

DEMO

[FafnerMorell]

We'll see - it'll be awesome if it works.

I'm a little skeptical of the business venture until they really do get it production. A few years ago, someone actually got about $50 million in funding for what was essentially a perpetual motion machine - and, needless to say, it turned out to be a scam. But it's easy to get investors for anything that promises "free energy" - because everyone knows it would be a huge amount of $$$$ to whoever makes it real.

[Chiteng]

Lets assume you had a solution and it worked.
Hey I am thinking that would solve all energy problems other than having too much heat released into the environ.

But in any case, lets say you had a reactor, you could build it anywhere you wanted, funding isnt an issue.

What do you do with the by-product Helium nuclei? They will NOT simply vanish. They will leave the reactor
at VERY high speed. You cant simply wall it up in concrete, because what happens then is the integrity
of the concrete is compromised by the build up of Helium gas bubbles inside the concrete.
The concrete eventually collapses.

No matter what material you use, you cant escape this problem.

[SupportTank]

chit While I will confess right away that I do Not have all the information. If the byproduct of this fusion reaction is nickle, I am fairly sure the reaction isn't 2 hydrogen to make helium.

Also. If you read the article. They shut down the demonstration reaction with some room temp water. Which means its temp is fairly low to begin with. (in comparison to the sun anyways).



I would love to learn more. but they aren't talking.


I was thinking though. since this thing is fairly small. wouldn't it be great if you put them in to all the cars. and houses and pretty much everywhere? It would be the end of the mass amounts of real pollution created by people just getting to work, and people just heating their homes.

[Echelon Forester]

some byproduct is guaranteed when energy is released. but, its the release of energy that we need.

internal combustion has a byproduct. nuclear fission has a byproduct. fusion will produce byproducts.

fusion will still have some inherent radiation dangers.

[Davek]

Originally Posted by SupportTank

chit While I will confess right away that I do Not have all the information. If the byproduct of this fusion reaction is nickle, I am fairly sure the reaction isn't 2 hydrogen to make helium.

From the Article:

when the atomic nuclei of nickel and hydrogen are fused in their reactor, the reaction produces copper and a large amount of energy.

[Caeelar]

It's not free energy... you still have to come up with fuel, which in this case is Hydrogen. According to the laws of physics, it will take at LEAST 12k watts of energy to produce the hydrogen needed to fuel the reactor. Energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only change forms. Most likely, it will take alot more then 12k watts since alot of the energy created is lost in various ways. This form of energy would be, however, much cleaner and renewable then the fossile fuels and reactors currently in production.

[FafnerMorell]

It would be funny as well (at least to me) if the output was gold. Although copper is almost as good, from an economically-valuable commodity standpoint.

I'm torn between running a scam on "Invest in a magical machine which produces unlimited energy AND gold" or writing a conspiracy book about how there is a magical machine which produces unlimited energy AND gold but the evil oil companies/bankers have supressed all development of it.

[SupportTank]

Originally Posted by Caeelar

It's not free energy... you still have to come up with fuel, which in this case is Hydrogen. According to the laws of physics, it will take at LEAST 12k watts of energy to produce the hydrogen needed to fuel the reactor. Energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only change forms. Most likely, it will take alot more then 12k watts since alot of the energy created is lost in various ways. This form of energy would be, however, much cleaner and renewable then the fossile fuels and reactors currently in production.

Where do you get that information for the hydrogen?

I mean. its the MOST common element in the Entire universe. you can get it just about anywhere. Pretty much free

[Echelon Forester]

the more i think about this, the more the wheels come off the bus. these guys, at a minimum, should be able to describe the atomic weight of the copper isotopes created by the reaction. where is the science?

"italian scientists" should have been the first clue, lol.

[SupportTank]

Id love this to be real. But as I said. If you just invented the worlds most valuable item. would YOU just hand out to everyone how you did it?

[Echelon Forester]

i wouldnt hold a press conference making amazing claims that i cant support or completely explain. this is why their patent is going to be rejected because all they are saying is "we have the answer, give us a patent". how are they protecting their invention in this manner?

this could be important science but i doubt it. and its important to me because the word new energy often runs synonymous with the word weapon. take out "cold fusion" in that article and insert the word "weapon".

[SupportTank]

we allready can make fusion bombs. so I dont see the weapon here.

[Echelon Forester]

they did their research at the university of bologna...priceless...

[SupportTank]

http://www.eng.unibo.it/PortaleEn/default.htm

which is real. you know the words been around longer then what americans did to it right?

[Chiteng]

Since I know the binding energy of copper, there is NO WAY IN HELL you can get cold fusion -> -> Cu
Forget it. Its fraud. NOTHING, has a stronger binding energy than Copper. These guys are talking out their asses.
If you could create enough energy to actually do this, everyone within 100 yards would die of neutron bombardment.

But H2 -> He, is possible, just difficult, as I outlined

[Wildane]

Originally Posted by Drysdale

In their limos, being pulled by diamond encrusted eunuchs with their harems in the back seat.

Y'all are both crazy. Nobel will come to THEM.

[Wildane]

Originally Posted by SupportTank

Id love this to be real. But as I said. If you just invented the worlds most valuable item. would YOU just hand out to everyone how you did it?

Yes, because by the time you're ready to unveil it to the world, you've already secured all the patents and such.

[Echelon Forester]

here is another twist. would this be called "cold fission"?

[Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Wildane

Y'all are both crazy. Nobel will come to THEM.

Nah, they reserve that for unqualified dictator wannabes.

[SupportTank]

we get hydrogen for free without having to split it off from oil wells. Lots of it. so much of it they generally burn it off for lack of something to do with it.

[Beal]

Another article out on this today. FYI, if you plan to respond to anything in this thread, remember that any post before this one is 9 months old.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45153076...ience-science/

Italian cold fusion machine passes another test
Despite a world of skepticism about E-Cat and other devices, proof is adding up

Italian physicist and inventor Andrea Rossi has conducted a public demonstration of his "cold fusion" machine, the E-Cat, at the University of Bologna, showing that a small amount of input energy drives an unexplained reaction between atoms of hydrogen and nickel that leads to a large outpouring of energy, more than 10 times what was put in.

The first seemingly successful cold fusion experiment was reported two decades ago, but the process has forever been met with heavy skepticism. It's a seemingly impossible process in which two types of atoms, typically a light element and a heavier metal, seem to fuse together, releasing pure heat that can be converted into electricity. The process is an attractive energy solution for two reasons: Unlike in nuclear fission, the reaction doesn't give off dangerous radiation. Unlike the fusion processes that take place in the sun, cold fusion doesn't require extremely high temperatures.

But the experimentalists who have seemingly demonstrated cold fusion over the years have been unable to explain the underlying mechanism that drives the miraculous reaction they claim to observe, and so the scientific community has largely turned its back on this line of research. Most physicists — as well as the United States Department of Energy (DoE), academic journals, and the U.S. Patent Office — consider cold fusion machines to be hoaxes, because they say physics rules out the possibility of room-temperature nuclear fusion.

Life's Little Mysteries reported on the E-Cat machine in April, when Rossi and fellow physicist Sergio Focardi successfully demonstrated the device for a group of Swedish physicists. At the time, we explained that the Italian physicists are two of a handful of researchers around the world who have kept the cold fusion fire burning. These cold fusion devotees believe that there is a little-understood physical process occurring in their machines that produces a safe, clean and endlessly renewable form of energy.

The physicists who were invited to the demonstration in April gave the E-Cat a solid thumbs-up. It produced too much excess heat to have been originating from a chemical process, they wrote in their report, adding that, "The only alternative explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production."

In the intervening months, Rossi has built a large version of his device that combines many smaller cold fusion modules. At the demo in October, after an initial energy input of 400 watts into each module, each one then produced a sustained, continuous output of 10 kilowatts (470 kW altogether) for three to four hours.

Rossi has not published any details about the inner workings of the E-Cat because the device is not patent-protected, but other cold fusion researchers have theories as to how the process works. Peter Hagelstein, an MIT professor of electrical engineering and computer science and one of the most mainstream proponents of cold fusion research, thinks the process may involve vibrational energy in the metal's lattice driving nuclear transitions that lead to fusion.

There are several close connections between the E-Cat and other recent experimental results, Hagelstein said, noting that the excess power seems to respond to lattice spacing in both experiments, vacancies within the lattice (e.g., spots where the nickel atoms are missing) seem to be important in both, the excess power seems to increase with operating temperature in relevant operating regimes and other connections.

"There is not sufficient reliable information available about the E-cat for a rational opinion to be made yet, in my view," Hagelstein told Life's Little Mysteries. But because of these consistencies, "I am of the view that Rossi's claims probably should be taken seriously until such time as we have sufficient information that provides confirmation or refutation."

Rossi has formed a company, Leonardo Corp., which will produce and — he hopes — sell E-Cat machines.

In the meantime, Hagelstein and other cold fusion researchers urge the skeptical scientific community to give cold fusion devices such as the E-Cat a closer look. "Are physicists generally, and DoE in particular, so sure that excess power in such experiments is impossible that the very large number of experimental results which show an excess heat effect clearly should continue to be ignored?" he asked.