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Old 11-26-2010, 02:53 PM   #1
Chiteng
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Default The New Future Revealed

I just had an epiphany. What the near future of the world will be, stands revealed.

As the overpopulated masses start to starve, because there are too many people to feed, the Governments controlling those people, regardless of personal desires, will use
force to extort food, from powers they feel have spare food. Whatever force they happen to have. Nukes, if they have them.

NKorea has shown the way. Rather than admit their system is a poor one, they resort to blackmail. But NKorea doesnt stand alone.
Pakistan is a perfect candidate for similar behavior. Also some ex-soviet republics.

Sooner or later, one of the blackmailed powers will refuse. and a City will get lit up.

Examples abound. Infact I suspect that one of the possible blackmails will be an attempt to coerce the 'empty' powers to allow 'other persons' to
move to fill in the 'empty spaces' The Russians will have some trouble. Quite likely Europe as well.

This explains why the overpopulated powers are trying to obtain Nukes so desperately. They realize that they need leverage.
Brazil is an example.

I dont see a happy ending. The trouble may start, much sooner than anyone thinks.

And our pussy Federal Gov is too pussy to defend us from invasion.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:11 PM   #2
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We will "politically-correct" ourselves right out of existence (as a country).
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
As the overpopulated masses start to starve, because there are too many people to feed, the Governments controlling those people, regardless of personal desires, will use
force to extort food, from powers they feel have spare food. Whatever force they happen to have. Nukes, if they have them.
You just fell into the trap of Thomas Malthus. He, and his proponents, have been predicting this exact scenario since around 1798. So far, he's been proven wrong. Plenty of times.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:29 PM   #4
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Chiteng, I don't know how you even get out of bed in the morning, thinking the shit that you do. Perhaps you merely post here between long bouts of shaking uncontrollably in the fetal position? I am hardly Mr. Optimism, but good lord man...
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:28 PM   #5
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People consider me the pessimist. mostly cuzz I can generally see the problem with that idea. right away. instead of 10 minutes into the stupid you are doing.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
You just fell into the trap of Thomas Malthus. He, and his proponents, have been predicting this exact scenario since around 1798. So far, he's been proven wrong. Plenty of times.

That is amusing. He has NEVER been proven wrong. In the end, the world will see that.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
That is amusing. He has NEVER been proven wrong. In the end, the world will see that.
Oh, so Malthus only has to be proven RIGHT once? Because at that point, the ones remaining won't likely give a crap.

I'll prepare for an army of Davek zombies instead. Watch those teeth, dang it!
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
As the overpopulated masses start to starve, because there are too many people to feed, the Governments controlling those people, regardless of personal desires, will use
force to extort food, from powers they feel have spare food.
You support this very thing, Chit, except you wish to extort money from the rich because you feel they have spare money. You aren't even waiting for anyone to starve.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
Chiteng, I don't know how you even get out of bed in the morning, thinking the shit that you do. Perhaps you merely post here between long bouts of shaking uncontrollably in the fetal position? I am hardly Mr. Optimism, but good lord man...
I'm not so much doom and gloom as Chit, but he does have a point as far as the overpopulated masses go. All our current problems are tied to the fact that we have a finite amount of money and natural resources, and absolutely no type of population control in place.

No matter how much money you have and how well you can provide for them as they grow, that's just more people driving more vehicles, using more fuel; more people competing for jobs; more people requiring more living space which burns through the countryside faster; more people over which to spread the same amount of money. The last time I heard, there were 3 people born to every 1 person dead. To put it in the simplest terms: the demand is increasing exponentially moreso than the supply. I don't care how many tax dollars you pour into the economy, until you address the root problem, you're just delaying the inevitable.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:16 AM   #10
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You know, the more I think of it, the more I see the law of averages in place. Chit's just one side of the spectrum, the other being the octomom. In fact, that's hardly a fair comparison, since the octomom's actions are far more extreme in the path she's chosen than are Chit's. For every ignorant, irresponsible, socially-destructive force, we need the paranoid conspiracy theorist for balance. One side is ignoring society's problems completely while the other obsesses over them. Don't be too hard on Chit, he's just fulfilling his role.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:18 AM   #11
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The increase of food production increases arithmetically with the increase in crop and grazing land space set aside for food production. Human population has the potential to increase geometrically, with each generation, and there is an absolute minimum requirement of food and shelter necessary to support each human life. But the natural capacity of planet Earth to support life IS FINITE. At a given point, the number of human lives that can be sustained using the entire capacity of the Earth's food resources including potential space foregone as shelter ..will be exceeded by the size of the human population.

Rev. Malthus pointed out the disparity of geometric population increase, and the arithmetic of food production increased by farming additional land. Somebody had to point out the availability of land as a resource eventually hits a hard limit, and he did.
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Old 11-27-2010, 06:03 AM   #12
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The funny thing is, "food production increases arithmetically" is completely, utterly, 1000% wrong. Wrong as wrong could be. The past 200 years of industrialization have seen the efficiency of food production increase, well, something crazy. It hasn't just grown geometrically - it's something exponential.

Just go to the mall and look at the fatties. Does it look like we're suffering from a calorie shortage? And it's not just us - even India & China are seeing huge increases in consumable calories available.

The issue is that these improvements probably aren't sustainable indefinitely. They're fossil fuel intensive (as well as using phospates and other stuff). Not to mention related issues with overfishing in the oceans, etc - but at the same time, you've got a lot of improvements addressing these sorts of concerns. I haven't seen anyone really come up with a believable "We can sustain a world population of N indefinitely" number - we're flying blind - about all we know for certain is that
1) The number is finite (as has been pointed out)
2) Malthus's predictions/numbers don't account for the wild, disruptive improvements we've had. Oh, they work out OK for bacteria, etc - but if the bacteria figured out create their own plastic-manufacturing factory and build their own petri dishes, it goes out the window.

Now, NK is screwed, but I'd bet their population growth is less than most countries - their starvation issues are due to a rather unique decrease in efficiency. Pakistan is part of the global economy, and doing quite a bit better than NK (and they're rapidly decreasing the amount of agriculture they do, because they're doing it more efficiently).
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:13 AM   #13
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Malthus (under 'Proposed Solutions')

Originally Posted by Malthus (wiki)
"We may be quite sure that among plants, as well as among animals, there is a limit to improvement, though we do not exactly know where it is. <snip> "..No man can say that he has seen the largest ear of wheat, or the largest oak that could ever grow; but he might easily, and with perfect certainty, name a point of magnitude, at which they would not arrive. In all these cases therefore, a careful distinction should be made, between an unlimited progress, and a progress where the limit is merely undefined."
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:09 AM   #14
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Conspiracy? Conspiracy to do what? Breed?
On this level, humans are observably no better than ants. If they have food. they will breed.
Haiti is a perfect example of exactly that situation.

And who will impose population restrictions? The one certain human attitude is that NO ONE is gonna tell 'ME' who I can fuck.
That is exactly why I see no happy ending. Even if food were unrestricted, very soon the human biomass would be the
mass of the planet. Only so many photons impact the Earth. You cannot increase food production forever.

And it is already happening. The Middle Eastern migration to the West is an example of population migration.
The migration from Afrika to Europe is another.

Only the threat of DEATH, would make someone not breed, and in some cases they would martyr themselves.

Maybe Drysdale will enjoy wall to wall people. I would not.

If we refuse to defend the country, it will be taken from us.
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
That is amusing. He has NEVER been proven wrong. In the end, the world will see that.
He's been proven wrong every year that we are able to meet consumption with production.
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
He's been proven wrong every year that we are able to meet consumption with production.
So people in Haiti and Somalia are not starving?
Or Rwanda? Darfur?

He never said it would happen next week. He only said it would happen.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
He's been proven wrong every year that we are able to meet consumption with production.
That doesn't mean he was proven wrong, it just means he's not right yet. If we don't change our act, that day is coming.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
So people in Haiti and Somalia are not starving?
Or Rwanda? Darfur?

He never said it would happen next week. He only said it would happen.
For Rwanda, Darfur, and Somalia - you've got politicians deciding to kill off unwanted portions of their own people using starvation as a weapon. It's not a global shortage of food, it's a local overabundance of murderous hatred.
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Old 11-27-2010, 06:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell View Post
For Rwanda, Darfur, and Somalia - you've got politicians deciding to kill off unwanted portions of their own people using starvation as a weapon. It's not a global shortage of food, it's a local overabundance of murderous hatred.
Not exactly. I agree they are hateful people doing that. But in theory, it is to free resources for the betterment
of a faction they DO support. Competition for scarce resources.
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
Not exactly. I agree they are hateful people doing that. But in theory, it is to free resources for the betterment
of a faction they DO support. Competition for scarce resources.
So, when Bernie Madoff stole the $50 billion, he did it out of hunger?
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
That is amusing. He has NEVER been proven wrong. In the end, the world will see that.
Taking a quote of Malthus from Wikipedia:
Must it not then be acknowledged by an attentive examiner of the histories of mankind, that in every age and in every State in which man has existed, or does now exist

-That the increase of population is necessarily limited by the means of subsistence,

-That population does invariably increase when the means of subsistence increase, and,

-That the superior power of population is repressed, and the actual population kept equal to the means of subsistence, by misery and vice.


The latter two points (at least if we take them as a comment on human nature and a prediction) are false. Wealthy societies voluntarily reduce birth rates and control their own populations. Malthus was wrong.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
So people in Haiti and Somalia are not starving?
Or Rwanda? Darfur?
Yes, Malthus was famous for saying that war zones were the reason for his predictions.

Quit typing stupid shit, please. It hurts my head.

He never said it would happen next week. He only said it would happen.
http://www.henrygeorge.org/pchp9.htm

He puts it much better than I do. Malthus was an idiot with a flawed outlook based on bad science.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Beal View Post
Taking a quote of Malthus from Wikipedia:
Must it not then be acknowledged by an attentive examiner of the histories of mankind, that in every age and in every State in which man has existed, or does now exist

-That the increase of population is necessarily limited by the means of subsistence,

-That population does invariably increase when the means of subsistence increase, and,

-That the superior power of population is repressed, and the actual population kept equal to the means of subsistence, by misery and vice.


The latter two points (at least if we take them as a comment on human nature and a prediction) are false. Wealthy societies voluntarily reduce birth rates and control their own populations. Malthus was wrong.
China is a wealthy society?

By reducing our birth rate, all we have done, is make it easier for less responsible cultures to move in.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Yes, Malthus was famous for saying that war zones were the reason for his predictions.

Quit typing stupid shit, please. It hurts my head.



http://www.henrygeorge.org/pchp9.htm

He puts it much better than I do. Malthus was an idiot with a flawed outlook based on bad science.
I have examined his work and I dont agree =)
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
I have examined his work and I dont agree =)
Of course you don't. =)
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