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Old 06-20-2010, 06:23 AM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default Pass the Buck up to God

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/20/gul...ex.html?hpt=T1
What really bugs the fuck out of me is this whole "individual responsibility" crap. When it comes to actually being responsible, why pass the buck up to God? I don't buy it. It is because of our greed that this disaster happened. We should take the blame, accept it and fix it and learn from it. If we expect God to bail our asses out when we fuck up, then we will never learn.
Each and every one of us is guilty of excess. We need to learn.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:53 AM   #2
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Let's see, Bubbles. Louisiana law makers are worried sick and out of their minds about this disaster and thus far, their hands have been tied by the federal government in taking action to clean up the mess. And now they want to ask God for help and you call that passing "the buck up to God"? Prayer for a miracle is shirking responsibility?

You really are a dimwit. They aren't blaming God for this disaster, tard. They are wanting a miracle and who, aside from retards like you, can blame them?
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:17 AM   #3
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Their hands haven't been tied. BP has jurisdiction over the shores and the clean up because the local law enforcement has allowed that, not the Feds.

And you are the dense one Lur. I never said they are blaming God for this. Don't fucking put words in my mouth. I said, its lame to expect God to bale us out while on the other hand we preach about personal responsibility. Its a copout. Our greed and excess caused this. Not God's. This is a man made problem, not an act of God. It is because of our free will.
And yes, praying for a miracle is shirking the responsibility the exact same way a spoiled brat expects their parents to bail them out of jail. We need to fix this. A miracle ain't going to happen. Of course we could just say "fuck it" and wait for God to fix it as you seem to suggest. God gives us the ability to make these problems, he gives us the ability to fix them. You seem to suggest that we just shirk the ability God gave us to fix it and just accept the ability to make them. Its our job to fix it. We can pray that God gives us the ability or will to fix it, but there is no way its going to just stop on its own.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:57 AM   #4
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Bumble and Luri are both kind of right.

We do have free will, and I believe things, both environmentally and politically, will keep getting worse. These folks aren't passing the buck... they're hoping/praying for a miracle. I don't believe it's coming. If there's something I've learned over the past four years, it's that God allows some of the most shittiest things to happen to both good and bad people... all in the spirit of free will and as part of his "plan".

I still believe in God... but I don't really go to church anymore. I see too much despair and false hope. People depressed coming for uplifting... and folks praying for "miracles" that when they do come can easily be treated as coincidences... like job obtainment.

If you believe in God, expect him to do nothing on your behalf apart from what he already did 2000 years ago, period.
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot View Post
Their hands haven't been tied. BP has jurisdiction over the shores and the clean up because the local law enforcement has allowed that, not the Feds.

And you are the dense one Lur. I never said they are blaming God for this. Don't fucking put words in my mouth.
Umm... "pass the buck up to God", as you put it, is blaming God, freakshow Bubbles.

Originally Posted by bumbleroot View Post
I said, its lame to expect God to bale us out while on the other hand we preach about personal responsibility. Its a copout.
Only in your little mind. If you actually read the article you linked, you would find that they are praying for a miracle, not a bail out. They recognize what they have humanly done is not enough and all hell is breaking loose. They want God's help, not a bail out.

But in the world of Bubbles, asking God for help is asking for a "bail out." Go figure.
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:09 PM   #6
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Martigan, I believe God is still active in the world today. What he did 2000 years ago for us through Christ on the cross is the pinnacle of world history and the climax is yet to come.

The most "shittiest" things happen in the world, not because God allows them in order to protect "free will", but because humans have a fallen nature (we are evil by nature) and the world is cursed (read the first four chapters of Genesis and the book of Romans). It takes work to even do civic good. Naturally we will not do good, but will selfishly do what we think is right in our own eyes for self satisfaction; even if that means screwing over everyone around us.

As for "false hope", I don't know what your back ground is, but as a Lutheran I attend church for one thing only, and that is to receive the forgiveness of sins. Jesus never promised us good health, wealth, and happiness. In fact, He promised that we will suffer for His names sake. Being a Christian is hard. It isn't the life that some TV preachers like to promote for their own financial gain.

What Jesus has promised to you is the forgiveness of sins and an eternity with him when you die, or should He come again before you die. Indeed, God is not a heavenly sugar daddy, but at the same time I don't think He has abandoned the world. I would not want to see what the world would be like if God's grace was removed from it.
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot View Post
Their hands haven't been tied. BP has jurisdiction over the shores and the clean up because the local law enforcement has allowed that, not the Feds.
How is it even possible that you're getting dumber as time goes by? You're actually in the negatives now, dragging down others who encounter you.
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot View Post
Their hands haven't been tied. BP has jurisdiction over the shores and the clean up because the local law enforcement has allowed that, not the Feds.
Btw, this is not completely accurate. You are leaving out facts such as the governor asking to build a large sand burm to stop the oil coming ashore and the Feds said no, that they had to do an environmental study first. You are also leaving out the fact that Jindal ordered tankers to start vacuuming up oil, but the Feds (via the Coast Guard) stopped the ships because they didn't have the proper safety equipment. Of course, Jindal wasn't immediately notified of this and it took a week to have the Coast Guard order rescinded. I'm sure a harder look would uncover even more facts of where the Feds have gotten in the way.

Sure sounds like the Feds have tied some hands, or at the least made it very difficult for Jindal to act.
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:51 PM   #9
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free will. No man is forced to be sinful
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Chiteng View Post
free will. No man is forced to be sinful
That's right, because you are sinful by your very nature. No man is forced to do good. We must choose to do good. Evil comes naturally.

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." —Psalm 51:5
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:20 PM   #11
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Yes, everybody pray to God to stop the oil spill. While you're at it, see if Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy have any ideas. How about getting Poseidon involved? It's his turf. Oh, and don't forget tomorrow at dusk, everyone run out and wish upon the first star they see.

Really? Did Louisiana legislators really spend time on this "plan" while on the clock? Talk about getting desperate...
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:24 PM   #12
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:25 PM   #13
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I'm always amused by the willingness to give credit to God for all things good, but never blame for anything bad. If there's an omnipotent being, then he gets all credit and all blame. Anything less is horseshit hero worship designed to keep the gullible in line.

God is, at best, ambivalent. Says it right there in the Book of Horm, so you can't argue with me.
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Yes, everybody pray to God to stop the oil spill. While you're at it, see if Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy have any ideas. How about getting Poseidon involved? It's his turf. Oh, and don't forget tomorrow at dusk, everyone run out and wish upon the first star they see.

Really? Did Louisiana legislators really spend time on this "plan" while on the clock? Talk about getting desperate...
Whether you believe in God or not, prayer does help people deal with hard times. This situation is a tough time. There's nothing wrong with helping people deal with it.

Doesn't cost you anything, other than the pain of knowing that someone, somewhere in the world, doesn't believe exactly the same as you. As much as no one ever admits it, this is the worst thing of all for most people to live with.

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Old 06-20-2010, 10:05 PM   #15
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Wildane is just pissed off at God. He will get over it.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
I'm always amused by the willingness to give credit to God for all things good, but never blame for anything bad.
If you took time to read that book of "fairy tales"... you know... the Bible. You would see that God gets blamed for good and bad alike. But, you have your bias to warm your heart. Let's see how that works out for you.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen View Post
If you took time to read that book of "fairy tales"... you know... the Bible. You would see that God gets blamed for good and bad alike. But, you have your bias to warm your heart. Let's see how that works out for you.
You keep pretending I haven't read that book. Whatever lets you sleep at night I guess. Not sure what lets your god sleep though, with the blood of dead babies on his hands and all.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:13 PM   #18
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By the way, I'm really only in this thread because I couldn't pass up the opportunity to bait you. I'm not sure I have the interest in seeing you through a theological cockknocking contest again. You believe in your thing, I believe in mine, neither is going to move since neither has a provable hypothesis.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
You keep pretending I haven't read that book. Whatever lets you sleep at night I guess. Not sure what lets your god sleep though, with the blood of dead babies on his hands and all.
I know... I know... you would rather burn in hell than spend an eternity with the God who would send you there. I know all the juicy atheist/agnostic, "enlightened" lines. You know better than God. I have been there and done it.

Good luck to you. You might actually cope with the sin in your life and when push comes to shove, tell God on your death bed what a wonderful human you were and how you don't need the forgiveness of sins that only comes through His Son, Jesus Christ. After all, you are a much better human being than anybody else. You tell us how wonderful you are all the time.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
By the way, I'm really only in this thread because I couldn't pass up the opportunity to bait you.
No worries. I know you are a moron.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen View Post
After all, you are a much better human being than anybody else. You tell us how wonderful you are all the time.
Untrue- I just point out what a piece of shit you are. I'm very modest about myself
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Old 06-21-2010, 06:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
You keep pretending I haven't read that book. Whatever lets you sleep at night I guess. Not sure what lets your god sleep though, with the blood of dead babies on his hands and all.
You forget that this world is transitory.

Besides. Those babies had it coming!
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Aolynd View Post
Whether you believe in God or not, prayer does help people deal with hard times. This situation is a tough time. There's nothing wrong with helping people deal with it.

Doesn't cost you anything, other than the pain of knowing that someone, somewhere int he world, doesn't believe exactly the same as you. As much as no one ever admits it, this is the worst thing of all for most people to live with.
No, it doesn't cost me anything. It does, however, cost the state of Louisiana to have its government spend time discussing and passing legislation asking people to pray, and it takes away the time that could be used to help develop realistic solutions. I have no doubt that praying helps people deal with things. If you believe someone or something is helping you with your problems, that takes the burden off you a bit (in your mind at least), which helps ease stress. I don't have a problem with people praying, but to spend taxpayer dollars on such is NOT the way to lead the people.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen View Post
Wildane is just pissed off at God. He will get over it.
Fuck you, Luri. The only thing I'm pissed at are the condescending people who blow me off like that; strangely enough, they're mostly Christians. How exactly can I be angry at something that I don't believe exists? No, that's your easy answer.
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Wildane View Post
Fuck you, Luri. The only thing I'm pissed at are the condescending people who blow me off like that; strangely enough, they're mostly Christians. How exactly can I be angry at something that I don't believe exists? No, that's your easy answer.
Your anger is most likely what spurred your disbelief. I'm not dismissing you, but I DO see the likelihood that this is true. It's easy to go from disappointment (self-admitted in your case) to anger, to denial. I'm not in your head, but Luri's supposition is very possible.

But since I'm not in your head, I don't know that for a fact.

But then again, you're emotionally involved with this situation, so you aren't necessarily the most objective about this either. It's easy to be in denial about something that you're very angry about. Hell, I have an aunt who when alive, was dead to me because she was such a C to my dad.
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