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Old 06-23-2010, 05:25 AM   #1
Drysdale
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Default McChrystal:The right thing to do

He should step down. He disrespected the office of the President. As a military officer, he should have kept his fool mouth shut. I agree with some of what he said, but he shouldn't have ever said it while serving in the military.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/to...s-resignation/
A senior Capitol Hill source tells me that General Stanley McChrystal had tendered his resignation to President Barack Obama and that the White House is actively discussing a replacement who could be quickly confirmed by the Senate.
The source said that among the names being touted as possible successors are General James Mattis, the outgoing head of the US Joint Forces Command and due to retire after being passed over as US Marine Corps commander, and Lieutenant General William Caldwell, commander of Natoís Training Mission in Afghanistan.
Of course, offering to resign is not the same as actually resigning and it remains to be seen whether Mr Obama will accept the resignation. Donald Rumsfeld offered to resign as Pentagon chief on more than one occasion but President George W. Bush requested that he continue in post before eventually firing him in November 2006.
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Old 06-23-2010, 05:59 AM   #2
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Looking over info from the article, it seems really surprising that a general & his staff would go so far out of their way to be insulting to nearly everyone - I get the impression of someone pissing on the desk of their boss as they tell them to take this job and shove it. McChrystal had to realize that this was going to end his career - did he just not care? Or did he want out so bad he figured this would be the quickest way to get out?
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:57 AM   #3
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Well, the president in Afghanistan seems to think McChrystal is the right man for the job, and that it would be highly disruptive to replace him at this juncture. According to him, McChrystal has "increased cooperation between Afghan and international troops, worked to reduce civilian casualties and gained the trust of the Afghan people." I guess that isn't as important as punishing libel.

Of course, none of that matters if he did indeed tender his resignation.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:36 AM   #4
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Good for McChrystal. I would resign too, rather than let my name continue to be dragged through the mud because of the reporting of Michael Hastings that kicked off this whole "hate McChrystal" lobby on the hill and in the media. What this looks like to me is that Obama can't take straight talk from one of his generals about the war in Afghanistan. Poor wittle Commander if Chief. I would have called him a pussy and gave him something real to fire me over.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:44 AM   #5
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It's one thing to call it "straight talk", but in this case, he made an open display to a reporter (or in front of a reporter, or somewhere around the reporter, etc.) I'm fairly certain that had McChrystal made these comments behind closed doors, not much would have been done about it. But as a serviceman, he has a duty to follow his superiors. And even though he's about as high as one can get in the rank and file, the Prez is still above him.

I don't necessarily disagree with him, but he fucked up allowing his ass to overload his mouth in public. And now he has to pay for it.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Shylodog View Post
It's one thing to call it "straight talk", but in this case, he made an open display to a reporter (or in front of a reporter, or somewhere around the reporter, etc.)
So what exactly did McChrystal say that was insubordinate? You really think his saying that Obama looked unprepared for their first one on one encounter amounts to insubordination?

Read the Rolling Stones article I linked above. I would really like someone to find where McChrystal is directly insubordinate to the Commander in Chief, because at this point to me it looks like McChrystal is being roasted because the Obamessiah is embarrassed by the Rolling Stone article.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:07 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen View Post
So what exactly did McChrystal say that was insubordinate? You really think his saying that Obama looked unprepared for their first one on one encounter amounts to insubordination?

Read the Rolling Stones article I linked above. I would really like someone to find where McChrystal is directly insubordinate to the Commander in Chief, because at this point to me it looks like McChrystal is being roasted because the Obamessiah is embarrassed by the Rolling Stone article.
Luri, in the military, if you say anything that can be construed as derogatory about your superiors, you are being insubordinate. Period.

Now, most of the time, you can get away with it, especially if you are amongst your peers. A LCpl, Cpl and Sgt could concievably have a discussion about the CO in such a manner and never get in trouble. But if an officer happens to walk by and hears the discussion, get ready for office hours.

In the military, there is no such thing as free speech in uniform. At least, not the military I served in. It's not until you end your military career that you realize what a great thing free speech is, but you also have a great grasp on the proper way of utilizing your free speech. It's not about just running out and spouting what you feel, it's about collectiong your thoughts and presenting them in a cohesive manner that usually keeps you looking like a nutball. But, because of the rights we all enjoy, the former is usually the law of the land.

Basically, Gen McChrystal broke his word, his honor and the code of military ethics by making a public display of his feelings about the Commander in Chief. While private citizens generally cannot grasp this concept (unless they have served) it is important that the code be upheld. If it is not, then the entire military concept fails. Once you can question any orders given (by speaking publicly about how you feel about your superiors) the command structure breaks down.

And that is how he was being insubordinate. Any public negative comments constitutes insubordination. You don't have to agree with that, but that's just how it is in the service.
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
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To bumbleroot: Know what? You're right. I DID misread your statement and I DO apologize.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Shylodog View Post
Basically, Gen McChrystal broke his word, his honor and the code of military ethics by making a public display of his feelings about the Commander in Chief.
Thanks for the explanation. I still don't get how saying Obama looked unprepared for a meeting translates into a general losing his job for insubordination to his superior, but I do understand upholding the code of military ethics and McChrystal certainly had a lapse in judgment when he even bothered to interview with Rolling Stone while in active service.

I still think Obama is drumming him out of service because the anointed one has been embarrassed.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:12 AM   #9
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Well, lets suppose you stood up in front of your entire company and said the CEO doesnt seem to know what he is doing. I am guessing he would nod and say he appreciated your candor. 2 weeks later they do a review of your department and oddly enough, they are one man over staffing levels.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:32 AM   #10
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my guess is the general is welcoming any way to get out of this bullshit. once again, we are in a hot zone where "the enemy" is near impossible to identify while we run around with large bulls eyes painted on our chests. and i lost all interest in political correctness long ago. here, hold this pen while i beat you to death with my scimitar.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen View Post
I still think Obama is drumming him out of service because the anointed one has been embarrassed.
You assume he has any shame. I'm not sure I can support that idea.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:45 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1 View Post
Well, lets suppose you stood up in front of your entire company and said the CEO doesnt seem to know what he is doing. I am guessing he would nod and say he appreciated your candor. 2 weeks later they do a review of your department and oddly enough, they are one man over staffing levels.
Yeah, because just about anybody can lead our forces in Afghanistan. Given his level of specific knowledge and experience, I doubt he will be as easy to replace as Luri.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:09 AM   #13
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No one is irreplaceable except maybe Chiteng. If our tinfoil hat industry lost him, it would fail.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:32 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1 View Post
Well, lets suppose you stood up in front of your entire company and said the CEO doesnt seem to know what he is doing. I am guessing he would nod and say he appreciated your candor. 2 weeks later they do a review of your department and oddly enough, they are one man over staffing levels.
Yes, but in this case the general said Obama looked unprepared for a one-on-one meeting. That is hardly saying Obama doesn't know what he's doing. Although, it is true. Obama doesn't know what he is doing. Obama has found his hot story that is taking media eyes off of his abysmal handling of the gulf oil spill.

This isn't about McChrystal, but about an embarrassed Obama who has to do something to look like he is in control. Someone should give McChrystal a medal. Not his walking papers.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1 View Post
No one is irreplaceable except maybe Chiteng. If our tinfoil hat industry lost him, it would fail.
I know, I just mean you really have to weigh your options here. If I lost my job, yeah, it would set them back a bit, but we're talking about a war that is costing this country billions and billions of dollars. Anything that prolongs that conflict costs us truckloads of money we don't have, so the situation is just a bit more sensitive than any normal job.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:52 AM   #16
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Of course, we could always get someone in there that has a better strategy. Eh, who knows?
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #17
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It's official. Petraeus is taking over (once the Senate gives their nod).
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
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To bumbleroot: Know what? You're right. I DID misread your statement and I DO apologize.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:08 AM   #18
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Yep, you beat me to it.

"President Barack Obama ousted Gen. Stanley McChrystal as the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan on Wednesday, saying that his scathing published remarks about administration officials undermine civilian control of the military and erode the needed trust on the presidentís war team." - from local paper

Personally, I don't think the military should be under civilian control, but that's just me. Hope this doesn't cost us people in Afghanistan.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:41 AM   #19
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Somehow, I don't think we'll be see MoveON and the rest of the liberals chanting "General Betrayus" at the Senate confirmation hearings this time.
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:52 PM   #20
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I would have fired him too, he showed bad judgement in allowing a reporter to tail his staff, knowing that they weren't up for it. Plus, it makes the President look bad in a place where he really can't afford to look bad.


But after reading the article, MOST of what he's getting shit for is not from things he said, it's from things his aides said, or second hand (as in he didn't say it in front of the reporter, one of his aides told the reporter he'd said it).

Also, even though I might have fired him, I guess I'm not Lincoln. After writing this I started thinking about what past Presidents have done when their generals acted like assholes. Truman fired MacArthur (and arguably prolonged the war), but Lincoln, when told that Grant lost Shiloh due to incompetence and being drunk said "I can't spare this man. He fights."

Maybe there's something in that. Sometimes you need an asshole, and when you've got one, one of the best places for him is at the enemies doorstep.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Aolynd View Post
Maybe there's something in that. Sometimes you need an asshole, and when you've got one, one of the best places for him is at the enemies doorstep.
Patton comes to mind, here.
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Old 06-23-2010, 04:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DD
I agree with some of what he said, but he shouldn't have ever said it while serving in the military.
You are such a flaming hypocrite. When all of those Generals down-talked Bush you said they should have had the guts to do it while in office. When they did it to Bush you were using [them not doing it while he was in office] as an excuse in favor of Bush. Your argument was if they felt it, how come they just didn't say it while they were still active. Now, you changed you tune? Why don't you be consistent and say the Generals spoke their mind with Bush because they are allowed to after they are out of the military and because Bush literally sucked. Those Generals did it the right way, this one did it the wrong way.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:33 PM   #23
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Quotes or shut the fuck up.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:34 AM   #24
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by aolynd View Post
quotes or shut the fuck up.
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