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Old 10-27-2010, 09:48 AM   #1
Hormadrune
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Default Rand Paul goon stomps hippie

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/...?p1=News_links

Video at link.

Disclaimer: yes, I realize that the person was there to cause a commotion, though I don't think they imagined getting squashed, and yes, I think she's grossly exaggerating her injuries (at least based on what I see in the video unless more happened off-camera), but it's still exactly the sort of image a vocal part of the Tea Party crowd seems intent on painting. All it takes is one out of control person (and this guy clearly lost it for a moment of jackbooted power-lust).
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:04 AM   #2
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If I didn't know better, I'd think you were implying hippie stomping is a bad thing.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:30 AM   #3
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1> I'd love to see the full video footage
2> I'd like verification that this guy was attached to the Rand Paul organization.
3> Fafner has a point there.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/...?p1=News_links

Video at link.

Disclaimer: yes, I realize that the person was there to cause a commotion, though I don't think they imagined getting squashed, and yes, I think she's grossly exaggerating her injuries (at least based on what I see in the video unless more happened off-camera), but it's still exactly the sort of image a vocal part of the Tea Party crowd seems intent on painting. All it takes is one out of control person (and this guy clearly lost it for a moment of jackbooted power-lust).
I agree. Kinda.


Now heres another scenario:


What if I show up at an Obama rally dressed as little black Sambo? Is the resulting beating at least partly my own fault?


Violence is wrong. Period. Yes. At the same time, I"m sick of these fucks. No one but them has any right at all to an opinion. If anyone else even tries to have an opinion, we gotta go disrupt it at any cost? Fuck em.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:34 AM   #5
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It's ok now. He's asked her to apologize!


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...-rand-pau.html
Rand Paul volunteer seeks apology from liberal activist he stomped

By Matt DeLong and Rachel Weiner

This post was last updated Wednesday at 1:50 p.m.
The Rand Paul campaign volunteer who stepped on the head of a liberal activist after she had been wrestled to the ground outside a debate said Wednesday that the incident has been blown out of proportion and that the activist owes him an apology.

"She's a professional at what she does," Tim Profitt, who was fired Tuesday from Paul's Senate campaign, said in an interview with local television station WKYT. "When all the facts come out people will see that she's the one who initiated the whole thing."

Profitt acknowledged that "I put my foot on her and I did push her down" as she attempted to confront Paul outside a debate Monday night but said, "I would like for her to apologize to me to be honest with you." He said he believed the activist, 23-year-old Lauren Valle, posed a danger to Paul, a Kentucky Republican and darling of the tea party movement.

With the incident threatening to influence the dynamics of the hotly contested race, the Paul campaign removed Profitt as Bourbon County campaign coordinator and barred him from its events. "The Paul campaign has disassociated itself with the individual who took part in this incident," campaign manager Jesse Benton said Tuesday.

Profitt and at least one other man roughly handled Valle, a MoveOn.org activist, as she attempted to present Paul with an "employee of the month" award from the bogus group RepubliCorp, video of the incident shows.

In a statement Wednesday, MoveOn official Ilyse Hogue said she was "offended and outraged" by Profitt's comments. "Profitt said the attack was 'not a big deal,' that Lauren 'instigated it' and that 'she should apologize' -- words that are eerily familiar to many women who have faced assault and abuse," she wrote, adding that "Candidates on both sides of the aisle, including Rand Paul, must condemn Profitt's outrageous statements and call out this violence for what it is: anti-women and anti-American."

In an interview Tuesday, Profitt said the scuffle was not as bad as it looked and blamed police for not intervening. "I'm sorry that it came to that, and I apologize if it appeared overly forceful, but I was concerned about Rand's safety," he said, according to an Associated Press report .

Valle, a District resident, said her face was swollen and her neck and shoulder were sore. In an interview with Post opinion blogger Greg Sargent, she said she believed the attack was premeditated.

"They identified me as a MoveOn worker, and as someone they knew from prior campaign events," she said. "And so, about five minutes before Rand Paul showed up, they motioned to each other to start taking photographs of me." She added that they formed a "blockade" behind her.

Read Sargent's post here.

"I think that this is an extreme example of the kinds of sentiments that people are feeling in many races across the country," Valle said. "I think that tension is incredibly high."

The race, one of the most closely watched in the country, pits Democrat Jack Conway against Paul. The video of Profitt carrying a Paul sign and putting his left foot on Valle's shoulder and then pressing down on the side of her head circulated widely Tuesday.

Profitt is being ordered to appear in court so a judge can decide whether charges are warranted, the AP reports. Sargent reports that police are treating the case as a misdemeanor assault.

MoveOn created RepubliCorp to symbolize what it says is the merger of the GOP and business interests controlling political speech, according to a report in the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Profitt said the fight never would have occurred if police officers had intervened earlier.

"A friend of mine went up to three policeman before Rand got there, and told them about the girl who was standing there with that wig on and that she was getting ready to do something," Profitt said. "The policemen looked at him and said that's not our job."

In the video from Fox41.com, Valle is forced to the ground by a man as another man holding a Rand Paul sign steps forcefully on her head. Watch:

MoveOn.org released a statement and said that Valle suffered a concussion but was released from the hospital early on Tuesday morning.

We're appalled at the violent incident that occurred at the Kentucky Senate debate last night. Numerous news reports clearly show that the young woman--a MoveOn supporter--was assaulted and pushed to the ground by Rand Paul supporters, where one man held her down while another stomped on her head. This kind of violence has no place in American society, much less at a peaceful political rally.

Our first concern is obviously Lauren's health and well being. She is recovering, and we will release more details as we have them. We are concerned that no arrests have yet been made, and we hope those responsible will be brought to justice quickly, and that Rand Paul will join us in condemning this horrible act.

Rand Paul's campaign released the following statement on the incident:

"We understand that there was an altercation outside of the debate between supporters of both sides and that is incredibly unfortunate. Violence of any kind has no place in our civil discourse and we urge supporters on all sides to be civil to one another as tensions rise heading toward this very important election. We are relieved to hear that the woman in question was not injured."

Paul also appeared on Fox News Tuesday morning and discussed the altercation. Via TPM:


"Well, we want everybody to be civil, we want this campaign to be about issues," he said. I will tell you that when we arrived there was enormous passion on both sides and it was something where you walked into a daze of lights flashing, people yelling and screaming, bumping up. And there was a bit of a crowd control problem. I don't want anybody, though, to be involved in things that aren't civil. I think this should always be about issues. It's an unusual situation to have so many people, so passionate on both sides, jockeying back and forth and it wasn't something that I liked or anybody liked about that situation. So I hope in the future it's gonna to be better."

UPDATE at 2:04 p.m.: Paul has released another statement on the incident.

"The Paul for Senate campaign is extremely disappointed in, and condemns the actions of a supporter last night outside the KET debate. Whatever the perceived provocation, any level of aggression or violence is deplorable, and will not be tolerated by our campaign. The Paul campaign has disassociated itself from the volunteer who took part in this incident, and once again urges all activists -- on both sides -- to remember that their political passions should never manifest themselves in physical altercations of any kind."

Jack Conway released his own statement, focusing on the gender angle:

I was shocked to see video footage of a Rand Paul supporter stomping the head of a woman outside the debate last night. We can disagree on issues, and I don't know what preceded the incident, but physical violence by a man against a woman must never be tolerated. It is my hope that steps have been taken to ensure this kind of thuggish behavior never happens again in this campaign.

(Via The Atlantic and TPM)

Read Perry Bacon Jr.'s report from the Paul-Conway debate here.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:35 AM   #6
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And in all fairness, if he really DID believe she posed a danger, I really can't fault him for curb-stomping her. It wasn't up to the level of a good police brutality video, that's for sure.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:38 AM   #7
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We all really should be grateful it wasn't far, far worse. If he hadn't been wearing his jackboots, it's quite possible his feet would have been infected with her liberal hippy cooties, and he might have had to amputate his whole leg.
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
And in all fairness, if he really DID believe she posed a danger, I really can't fault him for curb-stomping her. It wasn't up to the level of a good police brutality video, that's for sure.
Oldest trick in the book, and the Tea Party knuckleheads fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

What they fail to get is the politics of perception, and images are everything in those kinds of politics. All it takes is enough images like these, and facts be damned, Tea Party will be a footnote of history.

You can't beat down a woman and expect to explain it as, "Well, she provoked me". Really? A scrawny woman threatened you with her presence? Big, tough guy was afraid of a girl? That's what those images portray. And let me tell you, if Americans appreciate one thing, it is that the strong people don't beat up on 'weaker' people. It's unAmerican.

Rand Paul wisely distanced himself from the incident, and for the very reasons I point out - don't be associated with guys who beat up on women.

Paul campaign manager Jesse Benton said Profitt's actions were unacceptable and would not be tolerated.

"The Paul campaign has disassociated itself with the individual who took part in this incident, and once again urges all activists on both sides to remember that their political passions should never manifest themselves in physical altercations of any kind."
Source, CBSNews

Manly man, beating up on wussy liberal chicks. What's next, boxing autistic kids? Fucking idiots.
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Damn, is Pafuna allowed to win the intrawebs twice, or is it a lifetime achievement thing?
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:37 PM   #9
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Pafuna gets it.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
Pafuna gets it.
Well, he's king of the goddamn internet...duh!
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Old 10-27-2010, 07:06 PM   #11
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I can't see anything in that video that justifies anything that happened there. But then. the Camera wasn't pointed that at the incident untill something happened.

In any case she showed no Resistance other then trying to stay upright. there was Zero reason for the foot to the face. And I am sure a judge will agree.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:24 AM   #12
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My problem with the whole thing is that in watching the video, I never saw the guy actually "stomp" her face or head. I saw the guy try to perch his foot on her left shoulder and it slipped towards her head, but doesn't really make any real hard contact.

I've seen this same method used by law enforcement to prevent a suspect from trying to get up when in custody, and slips happen all of the time (in a lot more forceful fashion) and I haven't seen it talked about nearly as much as the story has.

Granted the guy was not law enforcement, but does it still justify him losing his job for trying to keep a suspect contained for the safety of the candidate? I personally don't think so.
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Write it down- Chuk made me lolirl
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To bumbleroot: Know what? You're right. I DID misread your statement and I DO apologize.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:15 AM   #13
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Assault is assault. I would have arrested him.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ini View Post
Assault is assault. I would have arrested him.
The courts would have to decide on his actions, but you'd need to arrest her as well, from what I've heard.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
The courts would have to decide on his actions, but you'd need to arrest her as well, from what I've heard.
Arrest her for what? Unless there's stuff I haven't heard yet, she was trying to present him with some goofy prop stunt and got pushed down and stomped on. Was she being a provocateur? Sure. Was she doing anything illegal? Doesn't seem like it based on the video or stories I've seen at least. What have you heard?

Again- I think she's a drama queen who has completely fabricated the injuries she's now claiming in the wake of her little stunt, but I don't see how there's any question at all that her attacker was in the wrong.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:23 AM   #16
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Disguised in a blonde wig and donning a sticker on her sweatshirt that read “I’m a Rand Fan”, Valle is said to have initially blended into the crowd in an attempt to get close to Rand Paul. Apparently, when she lunged toward the direction of Paul, supporters surrounded and attempted to block her from getting near him. As CNN affiliate WDRB-TV in Louisville, KY captured, bystanders held Valle down on the ground and shouted, “Get the cops. Get the police out here.”

In the flurry of the chaos in an attempt to hold her at bay, as WDRB describes, Tim Profitt “stomps on her shoulder with his foot, which then lands on the side of her head ” It was an unfortunate – and inappropriate -response. Everyone’s condemned it. And as of this afternoon, police say that Profitt is being served with a criminal summons ordering him to appear before a Fayette County District Court Judge.

At the same time, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for one to examine and question the motives of a paid activist from MoveOn.org who disguised and then planted herself in the middle of an already large and passionate crowd, and then tried to get up right next to Rand Paul.
Assault.

And before you pooh pooh that statement, who knew WHAT she was planning? She could have as easily stuck a knife or a gun in his face as a sign. After all, we know what a woman who's a fanatic is capable of...

You can't discount a woman, just because she's a woman.

She still shouldn't have been stomped, but again, if they guy was acting as security and was acting out of concern for Rand's life/health, he was right to restrain her. Hell, even if he wasn't working security, he was right to restrain her. No idea whether or not she had a gun or a bomb, or what.
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Last edited by Drysdale; 11-01-2010 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:52 AM   #17
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Being near a candidate without supporting him is assault? Is it now assault to disagree with someone's politics?

Again, unless I'm simply missing something, claiming what she did constitutes assault is some seriously namby pamby BS. I'm glad to see at least that the Paul campaign isn't wasting people's time with that sort of line. I'm not a fan of his at all, but I think he handled this about as well as possible.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:59 AM   #18
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I also find it curious how cavalier you were in this thread about open carry of weapons near the POTUS yet here you're worried about 23 year old girls carrying prop awards.

Actually, that's not true, I don't find it curious at all, I find it tellingly predictable
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:38 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
I also find it curious how cavalier you were in this thread about open carry of weapons near the POTUS yet here you're worried about 23 year old girls carrying prop awards.

Actually, that's not true, I don't find it curious at all, I find it tellingly predictable
The difference being, the armed person didn't go at the Pres, now did he? He behaved himself.

Again, who knew what her intentions were? No telling. She lunged at Paul, she got taken down.

She isn't a girl, she's an adult. Nice sexism there, bud.

Who cares what she was holding? How did that guy know that:

A> She was even female (Not that it matters very much)
B> She was harmless
C> She wasn't carrying something more dangerous than a sign.

So in summation:

Guy open carrying: Behaved himself
Woman with sign: Lunged at the candidate.

Yeah, it's exactly the same there, Horm...
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:33 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune View Post
Pafuna gets it.
Disagree.

I think it's backfiring in a huge way.

People like Bumbles have been trying to tell us for years "All conservatives are evil Nazi racists who hate puppies." That message has been diluted for a long time. It holds about as much water as "All liberals support Terrorists."


What is happening with these things (And Paul is by no means an isolated incident) is a tendency by activists to resort to any tactic to make the other side look bad.


Like I said, this guy was wrong. Violence is never the answer. He deserved to be fired.


But in terms of image, believe it or not, I think this probably helps Paul. He fired the guy...meanwhile his opposition is seen as willing to do anything at all to discredit him. Never mind that the woman isn't affiliated with his opposition in any way. We're talking about perception. It dilutes all criticism of him. IS he really as far out there as we've been hearing, or is his opposition just loony? The more things like this happen, the more the answer is choice B.
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
The difference being, the armed person didn't go at the Pres, now did he? He behaved himself.

Again, who knew what her intentions were? No telling. She lunged at Paul, she got taken down.
She approached him with a prop award. The only place I've heard about a "lunge" has been in your unlinked accounts. Again, all I can go on is what I've seen/read- I wasn't there, but the video certainly shows nothing to indicate a lunge, but clearly shows a guy stomping on a girl

She isn't a girl, she's an adult. Nice sexism there, bud.
Yes, you're such a chivalrous gentleman Gimme a break, bud.

Who cares what she was holding? How did that guy know that:

A> She was even female (Not that it matters very much)
B> She was harmless
C> She wasn't carrying something more dangerous than a sign.

So in summation:

Guy open carrying: Behaved himself
Woman with sign: Lunged at the candidate.

Yeah, it's exactly the same there, Horm...
A 23 year old girl with a sign approaching a candidate with a satirical award is a threat worthy of violent restraint but a grown man with an AR-15 at a rally screaming about socialists couldn't possibly be perceived as a threat? Really?

Remember, I didn't side with those who thought the armed folks at the Arizona rallies were by definition dangerous. It's a trick question where you wind up looking like you're scared of unarmed hippie chicks who disagree with you while supporting armed protesters who agree with you. It's a fun game I play sometimes.
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:49 PM   #22
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I guess we'll see where things wind up in about 30 hours or so. I wonder if the MSM talking heads will actually start to cry if they have to report Tea Party candidates winning, or if they'll just curse out the voters for their stupidity.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Aolynd View Post
Disagree.

I think it's backfiring in a huge way.

People like Bumbles have been trying to tell us for years "All conservatives are evil Nazi racists who hate puppies." That message has been diluted for a long time. It holds about as much water as "All liberals support Terrorists."


What is happening with these things (And Paul is by no means an isolated incident) is a tendency by activists to resort to any tactic to make the other side look bad.


Like I said, this guy was wrong. Violence is never the answer. He deserved to be fired.


But in terms of image, believe it or not, I think this probably helps Paul. He fired the guy...meanwhile his opposition is seen as willing to do anything at all to discredit him. Never mind that the woman isn't affiliated with his opposition in any way. We're talking about perception. It dilutes all criticism of him. IS he really as far out there as we've been hearing, or is his opposition just loony? The more things like this happen, the more the answer is choice B.
I do agree (as did Pafuna) that he made the most out of this situation in that he immediately trash-canned the goon and didn't fall into the nonsensical traps that Drysdale has. That said, the public impression is far more likely to be that of a tea party activist (the jettisoned campaigner) as violent thug than of a (presumably) Democrat troublemaker. The harm to the right with this sort of thing is far worse than the harm to the left- the upside/downside here has more to do with the big picture than the specifics of the Kentucky race (I don't see this being a meaningful blip on that race's radar insofar as influencing votes) but it does paint a picture of Tea Party activists as thugs. The exact image that Keith Olberman, Ariana Huffington, et al want to paint. I'm not even saying it's fair, but that doesn't really matter in love, war, or politics.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by FafnerMorell View Post
I guess we'll see where things wind up in about 30 hours or so. I wonder if the MSM talking heads will actually start to cry if they have to report Tea Party candidates winning, or if they'll just curse out the voters for their stupidity.
Depends which ones. If Angle or O'Donnell win, then I'd expect some pretty angsty reactions (well warranted IMO- both those ladies are batshit crazy/stupid). But anyone who expects the Tea Party to post a goose egg simply hasn't been listening.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:21 PM   #25
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FWIW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLeu...ayer_embedded#!

I'm sure you'll be crying for her. The other 2 or 3 people who went toward the car were pushed back as well. Now I wonder why they weren't also curb stomped? If you want to call that a curb stomping, that is. Like I said earlier, that hardly rises to watchable considering some of the police beatdowns you can find on youtube...

Oh, and can you show me where this guy is screaming about anything? He seems pretty calm to me, but I understand that you have to exaggerate your weak sauce because it's weak sauce.
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