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Old 11-19-2004, 08:37 AM   #26
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http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1866.asp

So based on this article the world is as young as Creationists say because the Scriptures are infallible while scientific dating methods are fallible? I doubt you will find any Scientists arguing against the fallibility of dating methods, there is of course a margin of error inherent in them. But his argument is just ludicrous.
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Old 11-19-2004, 08:38 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Kanjien
Paranoia will destroy ya
So will blind relgious faith.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Martigan
Just because someone believes in the creation model over the evolution model, it doesn't mean they are extremists and/or wackos. I also believe the earth is roughly less than 10,000 years old. You really can't disqualify the "other side" until you've done some research or study yourself. How can you disqualify the creation model if you've never even looked into it?

Here's some information to read. Not that any of you would read it...since you've already determined that creationists are all wackos.
Martigan- stop and think for a minute. You want people to regard on equal footing a:
1) well-established scientific theory plus its huge body of evidence
2) a religious theory based on the premise that a book written by men 2000 years ago should be accepted as the infallible word of God, in essence because you (and others) say so.

That's really fucking unreasonable. Creationism is a joke and a bad one at that.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:16 AM   #29
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Sience is evolving and theres a reason they call it a theory. Its based on our best guess. I remember the argument a few hundred years ago except it was about the relationship of the Sun to our flat earth. That was a theory too.

Creationism is not quite a theory though and if its to be taught it needs to be taught in other than science classes, perhaps philosophy.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:37 AM   #30
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huge body of evidence
Based on the evidence, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than creation.
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:41 PM   #31
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Lol...ok Mart....so if a scientist lays out fossil evidence, proved migration paterns, core earth samples etc. etc. to show you how humans and other species evolved, what would the creationist response be in terms of proof?
Would you lay out a spread of biblical scripture written by man (who is fallible) but its the word of God (who is infallible)....so therefore the writtings cannot be biased and therefore are infallible to prove creationism?

The whole creationist argument is based on "well science isn't perfect, and therefore we cannot believe it. God is perfect, kneel!"

Thats why I love Jesuits....Christians who believe in evolution = GOOD.
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Martigan
Based on the evidence, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than creation.
Yeah, a well-documented body of empirical evidence supported by sound theory and the world's greatest analytical minds versus "Pastor Mindfuck told me so!"

Tough call

Evolution is more than a bit different than earth-centric beliefs Kiebler (which themselves were propped up for ages by the power-mongers in charge of Christianity at the time). Earth-centrism was never supported by meritorious scientific analysis. Nice meaningless parallel attempt though- good try buddy.
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Eglath Astaldo
Thats why I love Jesuits....Christians who believe in evolution = GOOD.
Even I dig the Jesuits (for the most part). Hell, I'm giving them $30k per year currently
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:06 PM   #34
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Goddamn, McDonalds is paying you WAY too much!
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:08 PM   #35
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There is no way hormo makes that much at Mc Donalds, they only pay the people who work the deep frier minimum wage. maybe he uses the cash from his side job as Jizz Mopper?
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Wildane
Goddamn, McDonalds is paying you WAY too much!
Yeah, they pay Wildane less at Burger King.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:37 PM   #37
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Wow, if I'm working at McD's where would inbred cretins like you two get a paycheck? Guess that welfare thing will be useful to you after all.
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:42 PM   #38
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He isnt working at McDonalds. Thats just crazy talk. He buys sperm on the docks and resells it for 3 bucks a gallon under the brand name Crazi Goo...
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:24 PM   #39
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Creation scientists are that....scientists. They use the scientific method, of course. When you lay out the physical evidence, that is considered by a creation scientist. The interpretation of that evidence is where the differences are.

Take a look at the site...it seems you guys are still assuming that creationists are just taking things from the Bible only.
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:02 PM   #40
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I have to disagree with you, Martigan. It ain't science.
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:06 PM   #41
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Martigan, there is no such thing as "Creation Science". Creationism can't possibly be a science, because according to the Creationist the premise that God exists and is creator is not falsifiable. Without God creating there is no "Creationism".

In science, for something to count as a theory it must be possible to demonstrate its falsity through empirical evidence. The Creationist believes it is impossible to disprove the existence of God either logically or empirically. In other words, they assert there is no scientific test for the existence of God. Therefore, Creationism can't possibly be science.
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Old 11-19-2004, 07:16 PM   #42
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If everything was created a couple thousand years ago, then how do you explain stars?

If a star is 1 million light years away, then that means that it took the light 1 million years to get here. Therefore it existed at least 1 million years ago.
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Old 11-19-2004, 07:27 PM   #43
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You dont think a being capable of creating a star is capable of creating the distances between them? Why that makes no sense at all.

You either believe or you dont, applying scientific standards to something as all encompassing as the creation of the universe at the hands of a divine being is just silly.

Truthfully, niether creation or evolution should be taught in schools. Its too limiting. A school should focus on teaching how to think, not what to think.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:03 PM   #44
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No, schools should teach evolution in science classes. It is a valid theory and provides an objective analysis about living beings on this planet as we understand them. Creation can be taught in religion classes.

Hurry up and bring on the Rapture. Bon voyage!
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:04 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1
A school should focus on teaching how to think, not what to think.
Are you against the pledge of allegiance? How about teaching history? While I agree that learning to make decisions (and everything that implies) is a very important skill, a very great deal of school is about what to think, for good or ill. I do think there is too much "what to think" in the books and the curriculum, but I see very little social pressure to deemphasize "facts" and the official interpretations of them.


As for creationism, Martigan, I have in fact read many pages of apologists attempting to provide credible proof of Creationism. One topic in particular, explaining Noah's Ark, runs into so many problems that it's far more believable to just say God handled it all, rather than the odd contortions creationists attempt to make work. And frankly, a God who goes to all the trouble of a global flood when He could just wipe out all the humans but those few of Noah's family seems to be taking the long way about. If you wish to believe in Creationism, that's fine, but it seems like very weak science trying to make the facts fit the view rather than the view fit the facts. Not that fallible scientists don't do that all the time, but quite often other smug scientists are only too happy to shoot holes in the formers' ideas. Creationists seem for the most part to be too fixated on proving their religious point to be taken as scientists.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:28 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Eglath Astaldo
I don't need their grace to wake up. GWB's zealots are for the most part a bunch of tough talking pussies, and although I consider myself a pacifist (in so much as I rely on the threat of force above force), I have no fear that I could defend myself against 99% of the Repugs in this nation.
What about Dems? Or would they kick your ass sideways?

BTW, people like you are funny. You remind me of something the greatest intellectual mind of our time once said:

Everybody has a plan until they get hit. - Mike Tyson

See, stupid as he is, he still understands people like you... people who think they can take 99% of any group.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:52 PM   #47
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Are you going to beat us with your dads check book, Eglath? Maybe you can hit us with your cancer buddy's tumor. Esmerald has said it better than I could thats for sure.

You have never been hit.

Oh wait, this is going to lead to a post bragging about the time you got in a knife fight with 3 Latinos at the country club and ended up smearing them all (with butter). Or maybe we will get to hear the story about your grandpa marching all the way from the history department to the student union and back, up hill, both ways.

Stick to the pacifist posture, kid. Its much more realistic than the pictures you are painting.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:10 PM   #48
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Yeah, step off from Shardmoon, he's wicked tough.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:11 PM   #49
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Its true, I once ate a booger out of a dead mans nose.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:12 PM   #50
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One of those hard nuggets, or those slimey long ones that stick everywhere?
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