"Archerbear" <archerbear@notqwest.net> wrote in message
news:X7lEb.15$Ni1.16060@news.uswest.net...
> My pet peeve - all the current whining on the various boards!
>
> Monks think they suck.
> Warriors think they suck
> Mages think they suck
> Bards think they suck
> .....
>
> I can't find a SINGLE class board that's not full of bitching and moaning
> about how everyone else is better off than they are. If you took the
boards
> as gospel, you'd think the game is unplayable from level 1 - every single
> class is broken beyond repair, useless in groups and raids, etc. Absor's
> right, the classes are pretty much balanced - they're all a waste of time.
> Good heavens, how does a level 65 in full elemental sneak out of town past
> Orc 1 without being killed by the pawns????
>
> It's a game, people, and it's not perfect. Nobody's class is as good as
> they want it to be, everyone wants improvements. Get OVER it!!! Don't
> threaten to leave, just DO IT if you're that unhappy!!!
>
> Soulfrost
>

who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with crap
gear.

<brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:

> who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with crap
> gear.

Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez, we can't
tank, all other melee classes outdamage us, we don't get dire charm,
we miss notes all the time, we can't feign death, we can't teleport,
our mez lasts only 18 seconds.

See, bards are completely underpowered and useless and need some major
buffing up.

I think I've seen all these complaints on some EQ forum or another. If
I made some up on my own, well, that just proves how underpowered we
bards are!

--
Patrik Nordebo
Vidirix, bard of 60 hymns to Veeshan

On 16 Mar 2004 13:41:53 +0100, patrik@nordebo.com wrote:

><brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>> who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with crap
>> gear.
>
>Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez, we can't
>tank, all other melee classes outdamage us, we don't get dire charm,
>we miss notes all the time, we can't feign death, we can't teleport,
>our mez lasts only 18 seconds.
>
>See, bards are completely underpowered and useless and need some major
>buffing up.
>
>I think I've seen all these complaints on some EQ forum or another. If
>I made some up on my own, well, that just proves how underpowered we
>bards are!

Actually...

Bard song/melee damage scales up an order slower than the other
classes.

Like mages whose contributor power is largely limited by their pet and
its relatively fixed power level, while bard output is similiarly
limited by a fixed (sub) 18 second duration and 3+e second cast times,
with no ability to push the bounds of either.

Or consider the stacking capability of other casters... an enchanter
can make use of far more than 8 spells at a time; sure he can only
have 8 memmed but he can utilize more than that... a KEI cast hours
ago still benefits him...

A bard can also mem 8, but benefits from 5-6 at a time tops. So not
only does the enchanter derive more benefit per spell when compared
directly to bards but they can derive simultaneous benefit from more
spells too. Granted they are limited by mana... but with focus items
and massive modern mana regen is ...mana is not limited like it used
to be... but bard songs *are* almost exactly like they used to be.

Bards have a particular set of abilities that allow them to do some
amazing things ... like swarm kite... that were likely unexpected by
SOE, and certainly unbalanced in their favour... but in many
situations a bards power level has been shafted quite a bit.
Fortunately they still deliver unique utility, and are still quite
versatile for tasks like pulling, tracking, etc... and are still
desirable on that front...

I don't think bards 'suck' ... not by a long shot... but I do think
there are serious balance issues both for and against them that I
would like to see addressed...

<brown3301@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:SYA5c.41751$xL3.29817@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

>
> "Archerbear" <archerbear@notqwest.net> wrote in message
> news:X7lEb.15$Ni1.16060@news.uswest.net...
>> My pet peeve - all the current whining on the various boards!
>>
>> Monks think they suck.
>> Warriors think they suck
>> Mages think they suck
>> Bards think they suck

Most mages don't think they suck - they think they have issues
that need to be addressed. Apparently we were pretty convincing,
considering the number of small changes for mages on test (increased
pet mitigation, a lower level version of Siphon, tweaks to TPP and
XPG and, of interest to Necros and Bst's too, pet foci now boost the
level of the pet (DPoC +1, GoDS +2, SoAS +3, GoD foci +4 etc.))

patrik@nordebo.com wrote in news:87fzc97ylq.fsf@pluto.elizium.org:

> <brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>> who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with crap
>> gear.
>
> Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez, we can't
> tank, all other melee classes outdamage us, we don't get dire charm,
> we miss notes all the time, we can't feign death, we can't teleport,
> our mez lasts only 18 seconds.
>
> See, bards are completely underpowered and useless and need some major
> buffing up.
>
> I think I've seen all these complaints on some EQ forum or another. If
> I made some up on my own, well, that just proves how underpowered we
> bards are!
>
> --
> Patrik Nordebo
> Vidirix, bard of 60 hymns to Veeshan
>

The last thing bards want is SOE looking their way - most I know try
the old jedi mind trick "This is not the class you are looking for,
there are no issues here."

On 2004-03-16, 42 <user@example.net> wrote:
> Like mages whose contributor power is largely limited by their pet and
> its relatively fixed power level, while bard output is similiarly
> limited by a fixed (sub) 18 second duration and 3+e second cast times,
> with no ability to push the bounds of either.

Bard damage output can be raised with both equipment (better mod) and AA
(instrument mastery). Just about any class is limited in damage output by
their equipment and AA, and bards aren't even a DPS class, so who cares?

> Or consider the stacking capability of other casters... an enchanter
> can make use of far more than 8 spells at a time; sure he can only
> have 8 memmed but he can utilize more than that... a KEI cast hours
> ago still benefits him...

A warrior can have 0 spells memmed, but can still benefit from full
buffs. So can a bard. What's your point?

> A bard can also mem 8, but benefits from 5-6 at a time tops. So not
> only does the enchanter derive more benefit per spell when compared
> directly to bards but they can derive simultaneous benefit from more
> spells too. Granted they are limited by mana... but with focus items
> and massive modern mana regen is ...mana is not limited like it used
> to be... but bard songs *are* almost exactly like they used to be.

Instruments. AA. New songs. What was your complaint again? Chanter
spells are almost exactly like they used to be too, they do mana regen,
they haste, they slow, they mez and they charm. Same thing as they did
at level 24 five expansions ago. Same thing with any class.

> I don't think bards 'suck' ... not by a long shot... but I do think
> there are serious balance issues both for and against them that I
> would like to see addressed...

I see bards being very popular in groups, more so now than a year ago,
still immensely good soloers, still useful, nay needed in the raiding
guild.

Sure, we're not given that much new utility, we get the same gradual
upgrades as other classes. But we don't need it to be balanced.

--
nino
Jeril, 65 Bard, Venril Sathir

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:07:05 GMT, Sean Kennedy <x@n.n> wrote:

>patrik@nordebo.com wrote in news:87fzc97ylq.fsf@pluto.elizium.org:
>

>The last thing bards want is SOE looking their way - most I know try
>the old jedi mind trick "This is not the class you are looking for,
>there are no issues here."

Fortunately for those in this camp... I think SOE fears modifying the
bard code more than anything else in the game. =)

Redo the graphics engine? sure... we'll call it Tunare XP and it'll be
ready in time for the next expansion... ish.

Fix bard feature xxxx?
*shudder... twitch... twitch... twitch... .... twitch*

"Memo to self... don't mention bard code near the devs until *after*
they punch out for the day"

8p

42 <user@example.net> wrote in
news:n66e509rcvqq7kgcnr5us8vgev9noj9fdi@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:25:32 GMT, nino@nino.niue wrote:
>
>>On 2004-03-16, 42 <user@example.net> wrote:
>>> Like mages whose contributor power is largely limited by their pet and
>>> its relatively fixed power level, while bard output is similiarly
>>> limited by a fixed (sub) 18 second duration and 3+e second cast times,
>>> with no ability to push the bounds of either.
>>
>>Bard damage output can be raised with both equipment (better mod) and AA
>>(instrument mastery). Just about any class is limited in damage output by
>>their equipment and AA, and bards aren't even a DPS class, so who cares?
>
> For the most part the sum total of a bards equipment based damage
> output relies on his instrument mod, probably his drum. While other
> classes seek haste/str/procs/hp/regen etc to up their output and
> others seek mana/regen/a plethora of foci/etc to up theirs... bards
> just need a new drum.

Str has a negligible impact on DPS. Haste past about 31% has almost
no impact(*), HP increases the depth of necro/shaman mana-pools but
mana pool depth != increased sustained DPS. Bards have the original
foci in game and benefit from haste/better weapons if they aren't
twistin chants (IE they are twisting singing based songs, or songs where
they have that instrument mod on a piece of gear.

(*) on haste - Haste cap at 65 is 100%, Vallon's Quickening is 68%,
therefore 31% haste puts you near enough to the cap (going the last
1% is worth a whopping .5% increase to melee dps.

Currently, pet classes have a significant portion of their DPS (ranging
from 30% to 50% depending on situation) stay static from being early
60's with no AA to being time geared with 400 (the new pet aa's are
worth a 7% total pet DPS increase).

> Give me a 1gp merchant drum, and I'm ready to swarm kite while I wait
> for my rez. Bards aren't nearly as equipment dependant as the other
> classes. And not being as dependant implies they don't derive as much
> utility from it.

While waiting for a corpse summon in Barindu (don't ask) my naked BL and
naked mage duo'd the entrance mobs. Mages in particular are pretty
equipment independent - with the same effect you just named of being less
able to gain from it.

> I'm not saying bards suck. They don't. They're very powerful in key
> areas... but underpowered in others. It *is* a balance of sorts... but
> its an unstable one, based on screwball factors... like equipment
> independance...

Bard power comes through versatility, everything else is just gravy. The
same is true of BL's, it's the versatility that makes them so all-around
useful.

BTW - my original main was a bard, and I have a bard alt on my current
server. He's the only character I've ever had who gets more tells for
groups w/o LFG on than my BL.

Sean Kennedy <x@n.n> wrote in news:Xns94AE5185BF5A2xnn@207.225.159.7:
> Str has a negligible impact on DPS. Haste past about 31% has almost

Haste *above* 31%

Proofreading is good.

<brown3301@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SYA5c.41751$xL3.29817@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Archerbear" <archerbear@notqwest.net> wrote in message
> news:X7lEb.15$Ni1.16060@news.uswest.net...
> > My pet peeve - all the current whining on the various boards!
> >
> > Monks think they suck.
> > Warriors think they suck
> > Mages think they suck
> > Bards think they suck
> > .....
> >
> > I can't find a SINGLE class board that's not full of bitching and
moaning
> > about how everyone else is better off than they are. If you took the
> boards
> > as gospel, you'd think the game is unplayable from level 1 - every
single
> > class is broken beyond repair, useless in groups and raids, etc.
Absor's
> > right, the classes are pretty much balanced - they're all a waste of
time.
> > Good heavens, how does a level 65 in full elemental sneak out of town
past
> > Orc 1 without being killed by the pawns????
> >
> > It's a game, people, and it's not perfect. Nobody's class is as good as
> > they want it to be, everyone wants improvements. Get OVER it!!! Don't
> > threaten to leave, just DO IT if you're that unhappy!!!
> >
> > Soulfrost
> >
>
> who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with crap
> gear.

There are some bards that complain that bard personal melee output is too
low. But yes, most still agree bards are supreme.

Sean Kennedy wrote:

> BTW - my original main was a bard, and I have a bard alt on my current
> server. He's the only character I've ever had who gets more tells for
> groups w/o LFG on than my BL.

Do you have a cleric alt?

--
Annie

To join the alt.games.everquest chat channel type /join serverwide.age:age
If you want to stayed joined, then after that type /autojoin serverwide.age:age

Currently playing:

Teapray-- 51 High Elf Cleric on Firiona Vie

Lentea-- 36 Ogre Beastlord On Firiona Vie

Teajust-- 9 Froglok Shaman on Morden Rasp

--
If you can't figure out my email address, you're not supposed to write me.

<patrik@nordebo.com> wrote in message
news:87fzc97ylq.fsf@pluto.elizium.org...
> <brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
> > who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with crap
> > gear.
>
> Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez,

only 2 classes can rez so ummm, I guess everyone sucks except for palys and
clerics, gee thats why I dont ever see any other classes being played NOT

we can't
> tank, all other melee classes outdamage us, we don't get dire charm,
> we miss notes all the time, we can't feign death, we can't teleport,
> our mez lasts only 18 seconds.
>
> See, bards are completely underpowered and useless and need some major
> buffing up.
>
> I think I've seen all these complaints on some EQ forum or another. If
> I made some up on my own, well, that just proves how underpowered we
> bards are!
>
> --
> Patrik Nordebo
> Vidirix, bard of 60 hymns to Veeshan

"Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94AE8842AC725richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
> "Scott" <NO@SPAM.com> wrote in
> news:m7J5c.23023$fg7.5867@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>
> >
> > <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote in message
> > news:87fzc97ylq.fsf@pluto.elizium.org...
> >> <brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:
> >>
> >> > who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with
> >> > crap gear.
> >>
> >> Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez,
> >
> > only 2 classes can rez so ummm, I guess everyone sucks except for
> > palys and clerics, gee thats why I dont ever see any other classes
> > being played NOT
>
> Three, necros can rez as well, better than Pallys even.
>

I knew they could summon corpses, was unaware you got exp back from it

> --
> On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
> Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
> Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
> Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
> Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

"Scott" <NO@SPAM.com> wrote in
news:m7J5c.23023$fg7.5867@fe2.columbus.rr.com:

>
> <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote in message
> news:87fzc97ylq.fsf@pluto.elizium.org...
>> <brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:
>>
>> > who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock with
>> > crap gear.
>>
>> Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez,
>
> only 2 classes can rez so ummm, I guess everyone sucks except for
> palys and clerics, gee thats why I dont ever see any other classes
> being played NOT

Three, necros can rez as well, better than Pallys even.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

"Scott" <NO@SPAM.com> wrote in news:%kJ5c.14007$P45.5619
@fe1.columbus.rr.com:

>
> "Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns94AE8842AC725richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
>> "Scott" <NO@SPAM.com> wrote in
>> news:m7J5c.23023$fg7.5867@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>>
>> >
>> > <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:87fzc97ylq.fsf@pluto.elizium.org...
>> >> <brown3301@bellsouth.net> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > who Said bards suck? As the crazy bard of stromm, I f'ing rock
with
>> >> > crap gear.
>> >>
>> >> Of course bards suck. We don't have AE stuns, we can't rez,
>> >
>> > only 2 classes can rez so ummm, I guess everyone sucks except for
>> > palys and clerics, gee thats why I dont ever see any other classes
>> > being played NOT
>>
>> Three, necros can rez as well, better than Pallys even.
>>
>
> I knew they could summon corpses, was unaware you got exp back from it
>

You don't from the corpse summon, you do from the Convergance that a
level 53 or higher necro can cast, 93% xp restored in fact. Mind you
there is a cost, someone has to have been sacrificed to create an essence
emerald. Sacrifice is basically an unrezzed death.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

"Graeme Faelban" wrote:
> "Scott" <NO@SPAM.com> wrote in news:%kJ5c.14007$P45.5619
> @fe1.columbus.rr.com:
>
> >
> > "Graeme Faelban" <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94AE8842AC725richardrapiernetscap@130.133.1.4...
> >> "Scott" <NO@SPAM.com> wrote in
> >> news:m7J5c.23023$fg7.5867@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
> >>

<snip>

> >> > only 2 classes can rez so ummm, I guess everyone sucks except for
> >> > palys and clerics, gee thats why I dont ever see any other classes
> >> > being played NOT
> >>
> >> Three, necros can rez as well, better than Pallys even.
> >>
> >
> > I knew they could summon corpses, was unaware you got exp back from it
> >
>
> You don't from the corpse summon, you do from the Convergance that a
> level 53 or higher necro can cast, 93% xp restored in fact. Mind you
> there is a cost, someone has to have been sacrificed to create an essence
> emerald. Sacrifice is basically an unrezzed death.

And unlike the warm, nuturing cleric rez ... necro rezzes sting. ;-)

Crash

<snip>
>
> You don't from the corpse summon, you do from the Convergance that a
> level 53 or higher necro can cast, 93% xp restored in fact. Mind you
> there is a cost, someone has to have been sacrificed to create an essence
> emerald. Sacrifice is basically an unrezzed death.
>
Ahhhh...so this is why people are in the bazaar asking if anyone is
sacrificing.....
What would be the benefit of sacrificing yourself? Do you lose "X" amount
of xp, or lose a whole level?



-- -- -- -- -- --
·Pamela·
bristlebane.Simonette
bristlebane.Agapanthus
bristlebane.Iinolieni

I can't believe you've resurrected my thread from December.... sooooo much
scrolling to find the red thread!!

T.

"Pamela Carlton" <lambchop@whocareswhere.com> wrote in
news:qHL5c.106575$Wa.47609@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

>
> <snip>
>>
>> You don't from the corpse summon, you do from the Convergance that a
>> level 53 or higher necro can cast, 93% xp restored in fact. Mind you
>> there is a cost, someone has to have been sacrificed to create an
>> essence emerald. Sacrifice is basically an unrezzed death.
>>
> Ahhhh...so this is why people are in the bazaar asking if anyone is
> sacrificing.....
> What would be the benefit of sacrificing yourself? Do you lose "X"
> amount of xp, or lose a whole level?
>
>
>
> -- -- -- -- -- --
> ·Pamela·
> bristlebane.Simonette
> bristlebane.Agapanthus
> bristlebane.Iinolieni
>
>
>

It's an unrezzed death - so whatever amount of XP you lose
at your level. At 65 that's around 5% of a level.

You can only sacrifice someone who is 46 or above.

It's a way to make money if you have the resources to quickly
re-level, or have a 46+ character you're not going to play
anymore.

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Xref: dreader17.news.xs4all.nl alt.games.everquest:668358

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:25:32 GMT, nino@nino.niue wrote:

>On 2004-03-16, 42 <user@example.net> wrote:
>> Like mages whose contributor power is largely limited by their pet and
>> its relatively fixed power level, while bard output is similiarly
>> limited by a fixed (sub) 18 second duration and 3+e second cast times,
>> with no ability to push the bounds of either.
>
>Bard damage output can be raised with both equipment (better mod) and AA
>(instrument mastery). Just about any class is limited in damage output by
>their equipment and AA, and bards aren't even a DPS class, so who cares?

For the most part the sum total of a bards equipment based damage
output relies on his instrument mod, probably his drum. While other
classes seek haste/str/procs/hp/regen etc to up their output and
others seek mana/regen/a plethora of foci/etc to up theirs... bards
just need a new drum.

Give me a 1gp merchant drum, and I'm ready to swarm kite while I wait
for my rez. Bards aren't nearly as equipment dependant as the other
classes. And not being as dependant implies they don't derive as much
utility from it.

>> Or consider the stacking capability of other casters... an enchanter
>> can make use of far more than 8 spells at a time; sure he can only
>> have 8 memmed but he can utilize more than that... a KEI cast hours
>> ago still benefits him...
>
>A warrior can have 0 spells memmed, but can still benefit from full
>buffs. So can a bard. What's your point?

Whats yours? A warrior doesn't contribute to a fight via his spells...
Bards do. They chain cast them from beginning to end and then during
down time too. A bard is a caster first and foremost and his power is
measured by what he can accomplish by casting... not by his melee
ability.

>> A bard can also mem 8, but benefits from 5-6 at a time tops. So not
>> only does the enchanter derive more benefit per spell when compared
>> directly to bards but they can derive simultaneous benefit from more
>> spells too. Granted they are limited by mana... but with focus items
>> and massive modern mana regen is ...mana is not limited like it used
>> to be... but bard songs *are* almost exactly like they used to be.

>Instruments. AA. New songs. What was your complaint again? Chanter
>spells are almost exactly like they used to be too, they do mana regen,
>they haste, they slow, they mez and they charm. Same thing as they did
>at level 24 five expansions ago. Same thing with any class.

Think about the total effect though. An enchanter can contribute more
slow, more regen, more haste, better stuns, longer charms... x15+

Even assuming Bards are boosted the same per song as an enchanter is
per spell its only x4 or 5.

Each time you give a minor change to a caster it multiplies 15 fold...
the same changes to a bard multiply 5 fold.

Imagine a trivial game with a 20 rocket missile launcher and a 5
rocket one. Now... assume they're trivially balanced... so the 20
rocket launcher does 2 damage per head and the 5 does 8. On a full hit
they both do 40 damage. Now if you increase each rocket by one damage
they're now unabalanced... the 20 rocket does 60, but the 5 rocket
does only 45. This is what I'm trying to say about bards. Bard songs
are not dramatially more powerful than previous iterations to the
degree that they would need to be to keep up with the changes made to
other casters who aren't limited to 5 effects.

>Sure, we're not given that much new utility, we get the same gradual
>upgrades as other classes. But we don't need it to be balanced.

The same gradual increase gradually leaves us behind.

Plus a great deal of our utility doesn't scale... you can't be more
invisible than you were before =)

I'm not saying bards suck. They don't. They're very powerful in key
areas... but underpowered in others. It *is* a balance of sorts... but
its an unstable one, based on screwball factors... like equipment
independance...

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:01:55 +1100, "Thomas Houseman"
<thomashousemanHADTOPUTTHISHERETOSTOPTHESWENVIRUS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I can't believe you've resurrected my thread from December.... sooooo much
>scrolling to find the red thread!!

Filter out read threads. =)

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:01:42 GMT, "Pamela Carlton"
<lambchop@whocareswhere.com> wrote:

>
><snip>
>>
>> You don't from the corpse summon, you do from the Convergance that a
>> level 53 or higher necro can cast, 93% xp restored in fact. Mind you
>> there is a cost, someone has to have been sacrificed to create an essence
>> emerald. Sacrifice is basically an unrezzed death.
>>
>Ahhhh...so this is why people are in the bazaar asking if anyone is
>sacrificing.....
>What would be the benefit of sacrificing yourself? Do you lose "X" amount
>of xp, or lose a whole level?

You lose the same amount of XP you do by dying with no chance for a
rez.

--Jekke
=====================
Playing on Torvonilous
Mipmip Bromeliad (Froglok Cleric, 52)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=850034
Veteran Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 65)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=87681
Qiin Dred (Iksar Necromancer, 55)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=717977
Brikk Hauss (Ogre Warrior, 51)

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:06:07 GMT, Sean Kennedy <x@n.n> wrote:

><brown3301@bellsouth.net> wrote in
>news:SYA5c.41751$xL3.29817@bignews1.bellsouth.net:
>
>>
>> "Archerbear" <archerbear@notqwest.net> wrote in message
>> news:X7lEb.15$Ni1.16060@news.uswest.net...
>>> My pet peeve - all the current whining on the various boards!
>>>
>>> Monks think they suck.
>>> Warriors think they suck
>>> Mages think they suck
>>> Bards think they suck
>
>Most mages don't think they suck - they think they have issues
>that need to be addressed.

ROFL! After post-nerf monks, I can not think of a class that whines
more than mages.

--Jekke
=====================
Playing on Torvonilous
Mipmip Bromeliad (Froglok Cleric, 52)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=850034
Veteran Moulin Khmer (Dark Elf Rogue, 65)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=87681
Qiin Dred (Iksar Necromancer, 55)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=717977
Brikk Hauss (Ogre Warrior, 51)

Sean Kennedy <x@n.n> wrote in news:Xns94AE9DCCC4A57xnn@207.225.159.7:

> "Pamela Carlton" <lambchop@whocareswhere.com> wrote in
> news:qHL5c.106575$Wa.47609@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> You don't from the corpse summon, you do from the Convergance that a
>>> level 53 or higher necro can cast, 93% xp restored in fact. Mind you
>>> there is a cost, someone has to have been sacrificed to create an
>>> essence emerald. Sacrifice is basically an unrezzed death.
>>>
>> Ahhhh...so this is why people are in the bazaar asking if anyone is
>> sacrificing..... What would be the benefit of sacrificing yourself?
>> Do you lose "X" amount of xp, or lose a whole level?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- -- -- -- -- --
>> ·Pamela·
>> bristlebane.Simonette bristlebane.Agapanthus bristlebane.Iinolieni
>>
>>
>>
>
> It's an unrezzed death - so whatever amount of XP you lose
> at your level. At 65 that's around 5% of a level.
>
> You can only sacrifice someone who is 46 or above.
>
> It's a way to make money if you have the resources to quickly
> re-level, or have a 46+ character you're not going to play
> anymore.
>

Or a 65 character with significantly more than an unrezzed death worth of
regular xp available. I vaguely recall being told once that sac does not
work on characters over level 60, but, never tested or looked into it.
Maybe I should, I could sell a dozen or so sacs without losing my level.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 26 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons

Sean Kennedy <x@n.n> wrote in news:Xns94AE3DA926BA0xnn@207.225.159.8:

< snip>
>
> The last thing bards want is SOE looking their way - most I know try
> the old jedi mind trick "This is not the class you are looking for,
> there are no issues here."


Amen to that!

--
Rumble

Sean Kennedy wrote:

<snip>
> Str has a negligible impact on DPS.

Not true. Check out Coprolith's Study on the Beastlord Forum:
http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=211

There was been some arguing on Paladins of Norrath whether this
indicates that the combat engine has changed since the studies
that showed STR as unimportant several years ago. It may be that
the old studies involved mobs whose AC was outside the critical
range where ATK vs. AC matters a lot (well known on the flip side,
gave rise to the notion of the AC soft cap). If the old tests (no
longer available) involved only mobs with AC too high or too low
for ATK changes to effect damage much (i.e. a large proportion of
hits at minimum or maximum damage) then only a very large change
in STR would have had an effect. Testing done by Paladins unable
to crack 1000 ATK, for example, wouldn't show much change against
even moderately high AC mobs when adding 80 or 100 STR.


kaev

kaev <tospam@nottospam.net> wrote in
news:405a7a61$0$41297$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com:

> Sean Kennedy wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Str has a negligible impact on DPS.
>
> Not true. Check out Coprolith's Study on the Beastlord Forum:
> http://www.beastlords.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=211
>
> There was been some arguing on Paladins of Norrath whether this
> indicates that the combat engine has changed since the studies
> that showed STR as unimportant several years ago. It may be that
> the old studies involved mobs whose AC was outside the critical
> range where ATK vs. AC matters a lot (well known on the flip side,
> gave rise to the notion of the AC soft cap). If the old tests (no
> longer available) involved only mobs with AC too high or too low
> for ATK changes to effect damage much (i.e. a large proportion of
> hits at minimum or maximum damage) then only a very large change
> in STR would have had an effect. Testing done by Paladins unable
> to crack 1000 ATK, for example, wouldn't show much change against
> even moderately high AC mobs when adding 80 or 100 STR.
>
>
> kaev
>
>

Wow, that's some nice work on Coprolith's part, thanks for the
pointer.